Fix NICS bill

So help me understand the reasoning for/against the Fix NCIS.

As I see it if you are a 2a person against it generally that is because you don’t think a check system is valid or useful?

If you are a gun grabber against it it is because it fails to reduce gun availability and gives cover to the right that they did something?

If you are a 2a supporter who supports it generally it is because you want to hold accountable the institutions responsible for reporting? You generally are ok with a background check idea or accept that it will not go away.

If a gun grabber you think background check will stop bad guys and this is a first step, then close down private transfers...

What am I missing if anything?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I think it was very important that the selected wording states "the right of the people" and it's also no accident that this right, like no other, "shall not be infringed".

Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



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Originally Posted by Gman

Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



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Just off the top of my head... protest permits

The gov't involves itself when selling vehicles, land, and houses.

I agree that the best / most constitutional solution is to eliminate the background checks completely.

But killing the "Fix NCIS" bill won't get rid of background checks, it just keeps them even more useless/pointless.

Is the idea to make sure the data sucks, so the system won't work, and you think the dems will sign off on getting rid of it because it doesn't work? The dems care if it works. In fact better for them if it doesn't.

Want to hear a joke? "Government efficiency". [LOL]

Do you have the right to "vehicles, land, and houses"? As far as registration for taxation, totally different subject.

The protest permit has some validity.

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Originally Posted by esaabye

[COLOR=#111111]So help me understand the reasoning for/against the Fix NCIS.

[snip]

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I can explain that right after you explain to me the reasoning for background checks.

Some people shouldn't have guns. But should live right next door.
Some people shouldn't have guns. But never get in trouble when they try to get them.
Some people shouldn't have guns. But they do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gman

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I think it was very important that the selected wording states "the right of the people" and it's also no accident that this right, like no other, "shall not be infringed".

Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

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Win all the Interwebs. Close the thread.

The vast majority of people "stopped" from buying a gun by failing a NCIS check are innocent people, falsely flagged as prohibited persons.

So lets add a bunch more questionable data into it (without any sort of judicial review nor due proccess) and that will mean MORE people denied their rights because the bureaucrats get it wrong.

So yeah, its working exactly as designed.


The argument for Fix-NCIS is that magic works and if we repeat the right incantations (and make up some new ones) the bad people won't be able to do bad things.

edited to add: Ok maybe that's too harsh, the real reason to support Fix-NCIS is that NCIS and Brady are inconveniences that don't really do anything so if we tweak them we at least pretend we're supporting some tighter gun control and maybe the alligator will eat us last-er- the Democrats will be placated and drop the gun control issue for a while.

Ok. I hate it. But for God's sake, it's the NICS (National Instant Check System), NOT NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service)...

If they truly wanted to "fix" the NICS, the first thing they would need to do is wipe the database. Some estimates put the error rate as high as 30 percent. In some ways, Colorado's system, with some local control, is better. But Colorado's system is far from perfect, as it leans heavily on the NICS database for convictions outside of Colorado. Unfortunately, we let the door open when the Brady Bill passed without significant challenge(abetted by the NRA).


I recently had a chat with an antigun friend(who of course claimed NOT to be anti 2A, but wants to ban ARs) about background checks for private sales. I told him that as a responsible gun owner, I would like to try to make sure that I was not selling to a known "bad guy". I proposed a database that was A) Accurate, B) Transparent(unlike the mysterious"no fly" list), C)Real time, D)Publicly accessible, and E) could be checked anonymously(and for free over the internet). I truly believe that many gun owners would use such a service of their own accord. Instead we have a system which is inaccurate, opaque, has no real recourse or due process, is only accessible to those that pay hundreds of dollars for a dealer license and agree to keep records for many years, and can take anywhere from minutes to days to return a result that has a 30 percet chance of being incorrect.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

Ok. I hate it. But for God's sake, it's the NICS (National Instant Check System), NOT NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service)...

If they truly wanted to "fix" the NICS, the first thing they would need to do is wipe the database. Some estimates put the error rate as high as 30 percent. In some ways, Colorado's system, with some local control, is better. But Colorado's system is far from perfect, as it leans heavily on the NICS database for convictions outside of Colorado. Unfortunately, we let the door open when the Brady Bill passed without significant challenge(abetted by the NRA).


I recently had a chat with an antigun friend(who of course claimed NOT to be anti 2A, but wants to ban ARs) about background checks for private sales. I told him that as a responsible gun owner, I would like to try to make sure that I was not selling to a known "bad guy". I proposed a database that was A) Accurate, B) Transparent(unlike the mysterious"no fly" list), C)Real time, D)Publicly accessible, and E) could be checked anonymously(and for free over the internet). I truly believe that many gun owners would use such a service of their own accord. Instead we have a system which is inaccurate, opaque, has no real recourse or due process, is only accessible to those that pay hundreds of dollars for a dealer license and agree to keep records for many years, and can take anywhere from minutes to days to return a result that has a 30 percet chance of being incorrect.

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And His response was....................