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Has anyone done this "at-home" ccw? Anyone know George Hollmann? Just curious to see if anyone has done this and if any Sheriff's have actually accepted it. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, if you already know what your doing. I am sure this could turn in to a heated debate, but I am really just curious if anyone has done this or had any interaction with the instructor, George Hollmann? Thanks in advance!
http://www.highlandsranchfirearms.com/
[Beer] George Hollmann
As an NRA Instructor I'd have a hard time with this option being offered to someone who has no firearm related experience at all. If there was a way to verify someone's firearm experience I could see this as a good offering to them. A good percentage of folks on here probably didn't need to go through a full course to meet requirements due to firearm experience so I don't know how there would be a fair system to determine whether or not a home course would be sufficient. I just feel that folks would learn a lot more in a class environment. JMHO
I took an at home course. I had already researched the laws so I didn't really learn much at the time. I was accepted by the Sheriff though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StagLefty
+1
As a firearms instructor, I can't tell you the number of people that wanted to take a class but felt they "already knew" the basics and told me they were already proficient with shooting their weapon and very familiar with Colorado law. It did not take very long during the class to find out that they were not. Obviously there is a wide range of info that varies from class to class, but if you get in on a good class you will come away with learning something. If ( God forbid ) I was ever put in a situation that forced me to use my gun for self defense and I found myself in court, I would sure hate to state that I recieved my training in an online internet "test" and was never even required to show proficiency with my handgun. Just my opinion of course. Good luck.
To answer the OP's question, don't know anything about Mr Hollman.
In response to some of the other comments (and to beat on a dead horse just a little...) -
This has come up several times. This is just my opinion. Personally, I'm happy to have had the training I've received over the years from military, to law enforcment to private schools and classes. There's no doubt it's made me a better shooter and better able to make decisions under stress. I always recommend that people get as much training as their means will allow and that they practice frequently.
However, it's proven day in and day out that people with minimal firearms training (sometimes none) can effectively defend themselves and others. All one needs to do is look at news accounts of defensive shootings around the country to see this is true. You don't need to be some sort of firearms ninja to defend yourself with a gun...that's the beauty of having a gun. Not only that, but look at the number of accidents involving firearms vs the number of firearms available. Sure, one accident may be one too many. But seriously...in the grand scheme of things accidents involving firearms are very low in relation to the number of guns in the hands of "the people".
Even though I continue to make a living as a firearms instructor, I'd rather see Colorado adopt an Alaska model for firearms permits. If you can legally own possess a handgun you can carry it concealed for any lawful purpose without having a permit. I like the fact that AK issues permits if desired so AK residents can carry in other parts of the country (unlike Vermont). Minimal gov't intrusion at it's finest. I am absolutey, unequivically against more government intervention and more stringent requirements in Colorado for issuance of a concealed handgun permit.
Would I feel comfortable offering this type of class? Not really. But it appears to be legal and meets the state requirements for a "handgun training class" apparently. So, I don't have any problems with it.
Let's face it. Most classes that require range time and "qualification" really aren't offering "training". Having someone stand in front of a paper target from a few yards away and shoot it 20-40 times without making someone bleed really isn't training. There's no stress, no decision making required and no feedback from the target. It just seems to make lots of people "feel" good because they actually got to pull the trigger on a gun. This type of training in no way prepares someone for a lethal force encounter, IMO.
Flame on.
You are correct. This is a dead horse that will never stop being beaten. While I agree with some of your statements, I will dissagree with others. That is OK. Although, I don't think "accidents" are what we are talking about here. Like I stated earlier, all classes are different. Find yourself a good one and you will benefit. While I myself also makes a living as an instructor, I am very much in favor of less government. The less they have to do with our rights the better. I would tell anyone, do yourself a favor and get some quality training. Not only will it help you, but it will help the rest of the responsible gun owners out there. On a final note, I am really glad to hear you say that you personally would not be comfortable doing this type of class. Neither would I.
It's funny/amazing that you say this and I respect you a hell of a lot more because of it. Not that I didn't respect you but you get the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
Some of the BIGGEST opposition to the Constitutional Carry Law that passed in Arizona this legislative session was coming from none other than some of the most respected firearms trainers in the state. They said this that and the other about how it's not safe, you need training etc etc. This came after they clammerd on and on about how there needs to be no restrictions on 2A over the past few years of my participation of the boards down there.
But when it came down to money being removed from their pocket they threw fits. The going rate is 40-50 bucks for a ccw class down there. You do it once a month for 25 people at 50 bucks a pop you're talking an extra 1200+ dollars a month. Do it twice, you're making 2500 extra a month. Quite a bit of extra cash to have. Now that you don't need the permit, you don't need the class. These instructors saw this coming and saw that money going right out the window so they made a HUGE deal about how unsafe it was going to be. It really pissed me off and I lost a whole bunch of respect for a lot of what seemed to be good principled guys. Money talks and they all went the way of the NRA.
People that will sell their ethics and principles for cash...Quote:
Originally Posted by OgenRwot
hmm... whats the word I'm looking for here?...
I Agree with many of you. Training is a great Idea.
I would like to see all CCW holders trained with enough efficiency as to give even myself a sense of security.
That being said. I do not believe that there should be a government regulation on it.
Should it ever comes to a civil point of "he didn't have a proficiency for his firearm."
I would rather not have some bullshit blanket of "I met the state requirements.". I also dont want it to turn into another bureaucratic bullshit tax revenue.
Deep within each of us we know three things as firearms advocates.
and I honestly don't believe that any shooter worth his salt will ever say
- where our current firearms skills are at.
- where our firearms skill need to be.
- where we want our firearms skills to be at.
"I am an expert and know everything there is to know."
so yeah, no govt... no taxes and I agree
I'm starting to rattle... time for more coffee
Well, I've decided I'm ordering two of these, one for me and one for the wife. I've been shooting my whole life, taken the AZ permit course (which includes "training" 7 shots out of 10 in the "kill zone") and have shot a few competitions here and there. I know I don't need anymore classroom training and I don't need the "firearms training" you get at most CCW classes. My main goal in getting my CO CCW in cost effective manner. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Oh, I hadn't clicked the link until now.
I didn't take an online course. I took a lecture only course at someone's house who hosted the get together.