In your opinion what is the best all time vet service pistol. Think about longevity, production (use throughout the world), durability, accuracy and cost and easy to produce.
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In your opinion what is the best all time vet service pistol. Think about longevity, production (use throughout the world), durability, accuracy and cost and easy to produce.
Using your criteria, there really isn't any choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch
1911 is the only one that fits
Longevity:
Designed in 1909, in service w/ military in 1911 until today...well that's almost 100 years...I don't think any others come close.
Production:
Between 1913 and 1946 how many were made...something like 50 million. By companies like GM, Singer, Springfield, Colt and under liscense by 40 other countries.....no contest.
Durability:
Well that original gun designed in 1909 still fires...so again I would say no contest....there are also a lot of 60 year old guns still shooting.
Accuracy:
Well this is the one catagory where the 1911 has it's draw backs. I'm not including custom or race guns in this catagory...because these are modified. (It's like saying your Chevy is the same thing that gets raced in the Indy 500. Yes the same company name is on it, but no, your Cavalier is not capable of 200 Miles per hour.) Accuracy in 1911 style pistols is generally poor. Any semi-auto with a floating barrel and a wearable bushing will have accuracy problems...the barrel just moves around too much. (I know I'm gonna catch flack for this one but I was not talking about improvements to the 1911 making the 1911A1's either; just the original 1911)
Generally speaking the German's Luger or Mauser with their fixed barrel had far superior accuracy.
Cost and easy to produce:
Again I'm not gonna give high marks here either. Most 1911's do not have drop in parts...they need to be hand fitted by someone who is competent. Cost...with the manpower needed to produce one it is not a cost per weapon savings or bonus..it is a detriment.
By comparison was the grease gun with only 26 parts, all but the barrel just stamped sheet metal...there was no hand fitting required and cost about $2.30 in 1945 to produce.
The HP was designed before John Brownings death in 1925 (the same designer of the 1911) and is still produced as a service pistol today.
“Over 50 armies have issued the P-35 (HP) since its invention. The famed British special operations regiment SAS (Special Air Service), the FBI - HRT (Hostage Rescue Team), and the WWII era U.S. Office of Strategic Services (OSS) are among some of the organizations that have made use of the Hi-Power. Many Iraqi officers (including generals) were relieved of their elegant customized Hi-Powers during the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The MK1 version is currently in service with the Canadian Forces, and the weapon is the standard sidearm of the British Army, Australian Army, the Venezuelan Army, among others.”
The 1911 still issued to any military? Where did you get the production number between 1913 and 1945 from? The HP has been produce through out the world by many different countries (Canada, Belgium, Argentina etc)
A stock military issue HP will out shoot any military issue 1911 hands down, especially under rapid fire. Lets put away the BOB mentality and we are talking military issue not custom 1911s.
US of A is still issuing a variant of the 1911 in larger and larger numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch
Production numbers are very vague and have to be compiled from a lot of sources as no one place keeps all the quantities and serial numbers. 3 million were produced for the US military that were documented. Here again very vague. I get a lot of information from a lot of people who know way more than me at http://forum.m1911.org Springfield made 60,000 for the Navy that never arrived and went to the Marines. The Secretary of the Navy complained and got another 60,000 from Springfield. This extra set of Springfield pistols were not counted as they were "replacement" pistols in the production count. It is estimate that axis countries during WWII produced almost a million of these 1911 clones to be used with captured ammo.
EDIT:::DUH...I just noticed I put 50 mil in the above previous post...I meant 5 mil....sorry
Could not agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch