Ready to throw her under the bus?

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11-30-2012, 17:53
ChunkyMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

No Chunky I am not special. I just think that using the ignore list is childish. Esp when people feel the need to announce it to the world.

Yep as childish as those who has the need to feel he is right no matter what. One would think he would have rise to the next level and move on.
11-30-2012, 18:18
Rucker61

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

If those investors want to access US markets, then they will have to play by those rules. If they want to invest in other parts of the world and not import into America, then that is their discretion. But the money earned overseas will be subject to US taxes like it was all the way until Reagan. If we make tariffs equal the cost benefits of manufacturing overseas, then there is no benefit to off shoring US manufacturing (like it was for 200 years). Manufacturing will return when those two factors are equal. It will also ensure that US workers are paid better which will then spur more demand for products. Again simple Adam Smith stuff. In fact if you read the whole invisible hand quote by Adam Smith, he talks about just that prior to the that famous line.

Let me see if I understand your proposal. The government decides to impose tariffs on a basket of goods (all goods? some goods?) currently manufactured overseas. I presume that there has to be a period of investigation to determine just what the tariff rates need to be to create the future balance, and some study of future market conditions to plan for consumer behavior in this new high-cost world. Then comes the announcement, that on D-Day tariffs will be imposed on all goods in the basket. Once the date is announced, this should drive Capital to start investing in infrastructure for this new manufacturing economy. Plants will have to be built, workers trained, sub-suppliers created and contracted, new fabs built (in compliance with local environmental laws), raw materials purchased and schedules, marketing efforts begun, etc. Just how long do you think it will take to achieve balance in the system, from the announcement to full production and shipment?

Once the factories are up and running, unless there is just one company with a monopoly, we'll have price competition, as the market will be in shock. With a unprecedented jump in demand for materials, construction and infrastructure, the major knob to turn for cost competitiveness will be labor, so no huge new middle class bump. Meanwhile, everyone who is importing is bringing in immense amounts of inventory at the pre-tariff rate prior to D-Day. Consumers are buying now, not then, as they know prices will be jumping after D-Day. Folks will decide to get buy on one flat screen per house, not four.

Let me know what your search on "tariffs effect on the economy" pulls up.
11-30-2012, 18:20
Pancho Villa

Trade wars always end well.

Always.
11-30-2012, 18:22
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rucker61

Let me see if I understand your proposal. The government decides to impose tariffs on a basket of goods (all goods? some goods?) currently manufactured overseas. I presume that there has to be a period of investigation to determine just what the tariff rates need to be to create the future balance, and some study of future market conditions to plan for consumer behavior in this new high-cost world. Then comes the announcement, that on D-Day tariffs will be imposed on all goods in the basket. Once the date is announced, this should drive Capital to start investing in infrastructure for this new manufacturing economy. Plants will have to be built, workers trained, sub-suppliers created and contracted, new fabs built (in compliance with local environmental laws), raw materials purchased and schedules, marketing efforts begun, etc. Just how long do you think it will take to achieve balance in the system, from the announcement to full production and shipment?

Once the factories are up and running, unless there is just one company with a monopoly, we'll have price competition, as the market will be in shock. With a unprecedented jump in demand for materials, construction and infrastructure, the major knob to turn for cost competitiveness will be labor, so no huge new middle class bump. Meanwhile, everyone who is importing is bringing in immense amounts of inventory at the pre-tariff rate prior to D-Day. Consumers are buying now, not then, as they know prices will be jumping after D-Day. Folks will decide to get buy on one flat screen per house, not four.

Let me know what your search on "tariffs effect on the economy" pulls up.

That would be exactly what was done in all of the US's history up until Reagan started to dismantle it. It worked great our nation grew to become a super power. Only when we stopped doing just that did our nation start to falter like today. So yeah, history shows that it worked and worked well.
11-30-2012, 18:23
nynco

Again Rucker read what Alexander Hamilton had to say.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/200...ander-hamilton
11-30-2012, 18:25
nynco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Trade wars always end well.

Always.

What do you think is happening right now with China and currency manipulation? Or with Europe and their VAT tax? Those are all forms of tariff and trade manipulations. They are fighting for their economies and skewing the playing field. We are the only idiots that are not looking out for our own national best interests. I further expect that ALL nations would naturally look out for their own best interests just like we need to do for the US.
11-30-2012, 18:27
Pancho Villa

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

What do you think is happening right now with China and currency manipulation? Or with Europe and their VAT tax? Those are all forms of tariff and trade manipulations. They are fighting for their economies and skewing the playing field. We are the only idiots that are not looking out for our own national best interests. I further expect that ALL nations would naturally look out for their own best interests just like we need to do for the US.

Okay. I am no longer interested in engaging you on this subject.

I hope you have a nice evening.
11-30-2012, 18:30
nynco

You too Pancho
11-30-2012, 18:36
Rucker61

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

That would be exactly what was done in all of the US's history up until Reagan started to dismantle it. It worked great our nation grew to become a super power. Only when we stopped doing just that did our nation start to falter like today. So yeah, history shows that it worked and worked well.

We didn't have the same market and manufacturing conditions then as we do now. I still haven't seen anything from you about all of the studies in modern times about "tariff effects on economy". Here are a couple:

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#axzz2DktV27gi

http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm

And some you don't even have to read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_0P...0&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76IgGY0Jsw&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kra5njer6qw
11-30-2012, 18:37
Rucker61

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynco

Again Rucker read what Alexander Hamilton had to say.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/200...ander-hamilton

I'm not sure that Alex knew much about a globalized world economy, and that his theories may be just a tad out of date.

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