Pissing Off Putin.

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

Imagine what World War II would've been if the allied powers prevented the Germans from successfully invading their first country...

Instead, the UK and France did what many conservatives argue now "Pff it's not our problem, the Germans will stop in Poland or whatever, they aren't directly attacking us, and I mean, who cares what we agreed to in the past, we should keep our penny".

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I think it was Albert Speer or Von Ribbentrop who was interviewed after the war about Hitler's occupation of the Rhineland (which was a flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles.) When Hitler occupied the Rhineland in 1936, he was absolutely unprepared for war and France had the biggest, best equipped Army in Europe. According to either Speer or Von Ribbentrop, they asked Hitler what he would do if the French responded with military force (as the Versailles treaty allowed them to.)

Hitler's response was "Well, I'll shoot myself in the head, and you will offer our surrender."

Obviously, Hitler felt pretty confident that the French would not attack but imagine how different history would have been if they had.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

I think it was Albert Speer or Von Ribbentrop who was interviewed after the war about Hitler's occupation of the Rhineland (which was a flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles.) When Hitler occupied the Rhineland in 1936, he was absolutely unprepared for war and France had the biggest, best equipped Army in Europe. According to either Speer or Von Ribbentrop, they asked Hitler what he would do if the French responded with military force (as the Versailles treaty allowed them to.)

Hitler's response was "Well, I'll shoot myself in the head, and you will offer our surrender."

Obviously, Hitler felt pretty confident that the French would not attack but imagine how different history would have been if they had.

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Lesser known, yet very interesting facts, France invaded Germany before Germany returned the favor.

The Poles helped kick off WW2 as much as anyone else, by killing Germans living in Poland. For instance the massacres in Bromberg and other towns in 1939, (prior to the September invasion), where 58,000 German Men, Women, and Children were systematically murdered, Attachment 92420 Attachment 92421Attachment 92422Attachment 92423
Polish Army and/or Intelligence operatives further provoked a retaliatory response by attacking a German radio station just across the Polish/German border giving Germany all the official pretext necessary to invade Poland.

WW2 may never have started at all if the efforts of numerous ambassadors had not been rebuffed, instead Germany reacted excessively and the Soviets piled on making matters far, far worse for Poland. The Poles should?ve taken the dozens of better offers they received and refused to be led astray by the hyper militant Smigly-Rydz, (this guy for the uninitiated), Attachment 92418, who of course fled the country as soon as German boots were on Polish ground.

It is a tragedy that the Polish government refused to adhere to the principles of the late-great Marshal Pilsudski, who was a friend to Germany and would never have sanctioned or encouraged the excesses of the Smigly-Rydz government against Germany.

The folly of having alliances with foreign governments such as the ones Great Britain and France had with Poland, Germany had with Japan and Italy, and the United States has today through NATO, only serve to act as the trigger to allow what might otherwise be mutual combat between two neighboring States to turn into a global catastrophe.

You have to be a special kind of silly or evil to think that the Poles were the reason that we had WWII. The Germans and Russians had already planned to take apart Poland. And Germany was what? Just going to sit in its borders?

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Originally Posted by Joe_K

Lesser known, yet very interesting facts, France invaded Germany before Germany returned the favor.

The Poles helped kick off WW2 as much as anyone else, by killing Germans living in Poland. For instance the massacres in Bromberg and other towns in 1939, (prior to the September invasion), where 58,000 German Men, Women, and Children were systematically murdered,
Polish Army and/or Intelligence operatives further provoked a retaliatory response by attacking a German radio station just across the Polish/German border giving Germany all the official pretext necessary to invade Poland.

WW2 may never have started at all if the efforts of numerous ambassadors had not been rebuffed, instead Germany reacted excessively and the Soviets piled on making matters far, far worse for Poland. The Poles should?ve taken the dozens of better offers they received and refused to be led astray by the hyper militant Smigly-Rydz, (this guy for the uninitiated), , who of course fled the country as soon as German boots were on Polish ground.

It is a tragedy that the Polish government refused to adhere to the principles of the late-great Marshal Pilsudski, who was a friend to Germany and would never have sanctioned or encouraged the excesses of the Smigly-Rydz government against Germany.

The folly of having alliances with foreign governments such as the ones Great Britain and France had with Poland, Germany had with Japan and Italy, and the United States has today through NATO, only serve to act as the trigger to allow what might otherwise be mutual combat between two neighboring States to turn into a global catastrophe.

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You know you are actually quoting nazi and Stalin propaganda that were debunked 70 year ago, right?

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Originally Posted by ruthabagah

You know you are actually quoting nazi and Stalin propaganda that were debunked 70 year ago, right?

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What part is not true?

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Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

You have to be a special kind of silly or evil to think that the Poles were the reason that we had WWII. The Germans and Russians had already planned to take apart Poland. And Germany was what? Just going to sit in its borders?

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Not THE reason of course. There were numerous reasons, players/ actors. National pride and hegemony, territorial losses and gains, financial incentives etc.
Many competing political ideologies, Commies, Socialists, Nationalists, Facists, Democrats, Whigs etc.
And many Leaders from all ends of the world, Franco, Stalin, Kai-Shek, Hirohito, Tojo, FDR, Churchill, Hitler, Smigly-Rydz, Mussolini etc. There is not one singular person responsible for the war, it took many people to choose the paths they took to bring that disastrous conflict about. The groundwork was laid for WW2 in the WW1.

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Originally Posted by Joe_K

What part is not true?

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All of it. The Bromberg massacre for starter, was triggered once the war started by German saboteurs, and only a few hundreds civilians were caught in the crossfire. The number of 58.000, is a gross exaggeration, that was used as a casus belli by the nazis.

France did not occupy Germany in ww2 , unless you are referring to the Ruhr occupation in 1923-25’ often used by nazi sympathizer to justify their view. It was a non event, during a period of unrest in Germany.

We may never know the truth.
Almost 90 years have passed, and history is written by the winners...
Just look at what the left is trying to do with the cancel "culture".

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Originally Posted by bellavite1

We may never know the truth.
Almost 90 years have passed, and history is written by the winners...
Just look at what the left is trying to do with the cancel "culture".

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Yeaaaaaaa, no not really. WWII, and especially 1935-41, was not as straightforward as the simple history, but the history is known. Explaining Italy is hard enough, Finland is more complex, and we gloss over whole Nazi-Stalin partitioning of Poland- which started the war against Germany, but not against the USSR.

It isn’t that the history isn’t known. It is, but it isn’t simple.

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Originally Posted by ruthabagah

All of it. The Bromberg massacre for starter, was triggered once the war started by German saboteurs, and only a few hundreds civilians were caught in the crossfire. The number of 58.000, is a gross exaggeration, that was used as a casus belli by the nazis.

France did not occupy Germany in ww2 , unless you are referring to the Ruhr occupation in 1923-25? often used by nazi sympathizer to justify their view. It was a non event, during a period of unrest in Germany.

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The 58,000 figure may not be accurate, it may have been more, it may have been less. Numbers in Bromberg alone fluctuate from around 300 to 5,500. There were killing?s happening in Danzig all throughout 1939. If you look at Polish sources, the numbers are lower and casually semi-justified or excused. If you look at German sources the death toll is higher, But it is well documented and not just invented propaganda that ethnic Germans living in what was one German territory, (until 1919), were killed by their Polish neighbors in Danzig, Silesia and other areas.

The French invasion I am referring to was the invasion of the Saarland starting on September 7th 1939.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor...y-in-1939.html

https://totallyhistory.com/saar-offensive/