Knives - once and for all. LEOs? Lawyers?

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Originally Posted by StagLefty

Now I'm even more confused- One time at a gun show I was looking at switchblades at a vendor's table with a LEO standing right beside me. I asked him if they were legal and he told me you could own it but not carry it ??? So how would you get it to your vehicle if you bought it ?? Like we've been discussing-confusing knife laws.

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Statute's clear. You cannot possess. Not sure what else to say about it...

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

The only issue I've ever had with a knife regarding LE contact was when I was riding as a passenger in a car, and we got pulled over. Driver was arrested on a warrant (bogus, as it turned out), and I was detained while they checked me and the car out. Officer from Golden PD asks if I have any "weapons or anything I should know about), I answered "just my pocket knife (Spyderco Police model). He takes it from me. About that time, I (and the car) come back clean, and are released from the scene. I ask if I can have my knife back, he replies that I have to go to the station to claim it from the property desk after he turns it in. I did exactly that the next day, no issues. I'm relatively certain that he was hoping that I wouldn't claim it, and it could be purchased after a period of time as "abandoned".

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I would have demanded a supervisor and raised a big stink until they gave me my property back or arrested me.

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

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Depends-strong side or weak side ? [ROFL1]

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

Heard somewhere that you can legally own a switchblade in CO if you have one arm, heh.

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While that appears to make sense, it isn't written in statute as a lawful reason for ownership, nor as an affirmative defense.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

While that appears to make sense, it isn't written in statute as a lawful reason for ownership, nor as an affirmative defense.

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The "One Armed Man" exemption is an affirmative defense under the federal "Switchblade Act" providing the blade is no longer than 3".

I'm not sure how or if that carries over to state law, but any cop or prosecutor who wants to harass a disabled person who owns a pocket sized OTF (originally patented as a safety knife) may need to consider another career.

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Originally Posted by Clint45

The "One Armed Man" exemption is an affirmative defense under the federal "Switchblade Act" providing the blade is no longer than 3".

I'm not sure how or if that carries over to state law, but any cop or prosecutor who wants to harass a disabled person who owns a pocket sized OTF (originally patented as a safety knife) may need to consider another career.

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It is interesting that it is codified in the Title 15, Commerce and Trade, section of the U.S.C. and not in the criminal code, Title 18 U.S.C.

And it isn't an affirmative defense; it is simply a non-applicability. An affirmative defense is brought up to the court once charges have already been placed in court.

Personally, I would agree with you in your assessment of bothering a disabled person carrying such a knife.

Quite the can o' worms we opened here!

I offer a big THANK YOU to everyone that's replied, particularly OneGuy67 for his insights as an LEO.

Regarding the question of the hugely popular assisted-openers...

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

CRS 18-12-101 defines a switchblade as "any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle."

I personally would not define them as switchblades.

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Already said I'm no lawyer or LEO, but every interpretation I've found agrees with OneGuy67's. In nearly every state that has legislation about switchblades/automatic knives, there's some kind of similar wording about pressing a button, a lever, or some other kind of acutator that's not part of or attached to the blade itself. In the 80s knives with thumb studs and Spydercos exploded; the industry recognized the desire to at least be able to open a knife with one hand, and ways to do it legally. The current assisted openers are imho something of a loophole in the wording of the laws, but don't meet the existing definitions since there's no button, lever etc. Here's something related I just found:
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php...=76&Itemid=150 [Thanks to StagLefty for reminding me about blade forums! /facepalm]

Then there are the "wave" openers or whatever they're called, too... with that scoop shape on the spine that you can catch on your pocket during the draw. No button, no lever, not even a spring... hmm.

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Originally Posted by Clint45

Hunting, fishing, camp, and utility blades of any length are exempt provided they are carried openly and the individual in question is at a campsite or in the mountains and can articulate a reasonable explanation for why he has it on his person.

State of Colorado specifically permits daggers and dirks as long as blade length is under 3.5", but Denver does not recognize this statute and measures the entire cutting edge rather than blade length. That would turn a legal 3" boot knife into an illegal 6" weapon.

If Denver police notice a pocket clip they can ask to see the knife so they can measure it. If blade length is a fraction of an inch over 3.5" some officers can and will arrest you for carrying a "concealed" knife even though it was in plain view. These cases are frequently dismissed when they go to court.

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Clint45 - I won't ask you to confirm you're LEO, judge, lawyer etc. on a public forum, but your statements have a ring of experience to them. Your last two are a good example of what I've heard about Denver being more strict, though it's good to hear about the dismissals.
A question I have back (to all) about the first part:
- Is fear of running into a mountain lion... or a bear, some psycho, a weed growing operation, maybe a really scary spider... a reasonable explanation for carrying a larger blade, say in a place where firearms are forbidden? I think several of the popular parks fall into that category, and I know of one up in Evergreen that explicitly bans CHP too. I just wanna know that I'm legit if I wear my Campanion on the trails... crikey, has the word "camp" in its name!

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

I am a LEO and I will tell you what the state law says and then tell you my personal experience and belief.
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Butterfly knives fall into the gravity knife definition.
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Switchblade knives are discussed in CRS 18-12-101 and are illegal for possession.
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For the most part, Colorado law does not regulate or control any knives with a blade less than 3.5 inches.
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It is my unofficial belief that most law enforcement are not concerned with knives as long as they remain clipped or sheathed on a person that the officer does not deem a threat.
I know. It doesn't clear the air on the matter. Just my $.02.

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I fully understand this is "unofficial", and your input is much appreciated sir, as is your service. I figured about the butterfly knives... any input about whether they're affected by the 3.5" definition? I'm thinking one might not be a "Knife" as defined in C.R.S. above, so is it even still a "gravity knife"? I know, I'm getting way too detailed probably... I do that, especially in Hypothetical Land.

[Ninja] <--- those are just big assisted-openers

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Originally Posted by chrisguy

I fully understand this is "unofficial", and your input is much appreciated sir, as is your service. I figured about the butterfly knives... any input about whether they're affected by the 3.5" definition? I'm thinking one might not be a "Knife" as defined in C.R.S. above, so is it even still a "gravity knife"? I know, I'm getting way too detailed probably... I do that, especially in Hypothetical Land.

[Ninja]

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By the strictest interpretation of the statute, anything with a blade length over 3.5 inches is illegal.

CRS 18-12-101(e) defines a gravity knife as "means any knife that has a blade released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force." ~ thus your butterfly knife that is opened by flicking it around and using centrifugal force to manipulate its opening (or its cutting you if the blade is reversed by accident).

Conversely, CRS 18-12-101 (f) defines a knife as "any dagger, dirk, knife, or stilletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or a fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense." They have charged people with using a screwdriver under this statute as the instrument stabbed and tore wounds.

I do believe that you would not have any problems if you are carrying your Campanion knife and contacted by park rangers, law enforcement, etc. and you articulate the reason for carrying it, which sounded pretty rational to me.

However, as with anything ever discussed here on this forum, there are those officers who are new, who are ignorant, who are fearful, who are plain dumb, that may question your carrying of such a blade length. I'm sure they are out there somewhere. As much as I try to educate officers I come across who's training is lacking, there are too many out there, too many new ones coming in and too many hypothetical situations to try to get them to reason through.

I apologize for my profession.

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Originally Posted by chrisguy

- Is fear of running into a mountain lion... or a bear, some psycho, a weed growing operation, maybe a really scary spider... a reasonable explanation for carrying a larger blade, say in a place where firearms are forbidden? I think several of the popular parks fall into that category, and I know of one up in Evergreen that explicitly bans CHP too. I just wanna know that I'm legit if I wear my Campanion on the trails... crikey, has the word "camp" in its name!

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It shouldn't be a problem for you to carry a knife in a state park or national forest. But if you are stopped by a ranger and asked about it, DO NOT tell them you are carrying it for "protection." It is a camping tool, never a weapon.

I carry a knife with a 5" blade in my car as a part of my little BOB. It is usually in my passenger compartment. Will that ever be an issue?