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Not 300MAG
300 Winchester Short Mag
To quote the fellow above:
Quote:
Short action, roughly 10% less powder than a 300 win mag, 10 feet less drop at a thousand than a .308 and will hang in there against .300 win mag performance up to about 180 grain bullets.
I have both 308 and 300WSM, and for longer range shooting the 300WSM was what I ended up with after exploring many options.
With HybridV Hodgon a 168grSMK will leave the barrel at around 3100fps MV
Someone mentioned it, burning out barrels. Barrel life significantly different between 338WM, 7mmRM?
I have no grip on barrel life. Some guys run hot loads all the time and burn out barrels in as little as 800-1000 rounds, others have barrels shoot consistently for 2500 or more rounds. Just not sure there is a solid answer to that question.
Cant say ive ever seen a 300 grain 30 cal bullet so look at the post above that asking about 338's
7 mag is good for about 2k ish rounds .The 338WM will be better because it is less over bore than a 7 but not hugely so because your burning similar powder charges .
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Originally Posted by C Ward
I couldn't agree more; just saying if the guy wants one rifle to do it all, any of them can work.
Right, we can all say "your caliber stinks mine is better" Seems bullet drop with the 308 is double or more the 7mm. While that can be overcome, seems the 7mm would be superior by a long shot at a distance. And while Ill only take a 300yd shot now, Id certainly like to be capable of taking longer shots on critters knowing it would be a kill shot not a wound shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve
Someone told me 338wm is withing a couple percent points of 338 lapau. Ive not researched that, and lapua is out on every account anyway. But since you are seemingly arguing against the 7mm, and for 308, Im curious if you had any examples? I think I saw in long range section there were a number of folks that said you knew what you were talking about, so any knowledge from someone doing what Id like to do, Im all ears!Quote:
Originally Posted by C Ward
Or the question I may not want the answer to.... Do I need 2 rifles, one for hunting, and one for 1k yd target shooting?
Found federal has a nice comparison: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx
I like .308 because it is very common and the ballistics are pretty good, but if you look on store shelves right now, there is a ton of 7mm. So shooting something that is a very common round isn't always the advantage when there is a shortage.
Did a bit more asking with some of my elk/moose hunting folks at my office and most of them own or have owned both platforms, the majority of them are running 7mm for hunting. I still like my .308, but based on their experience the 7mm seems to be the better hunting round.
I use, and have used, my .308 out to 600 yards and it has worked perfectly; with the exception that I'll limit my shots on elk to about 450 yards with it. I have a scope with a rangefinding reticle for almost exactly the load I'm using, and as this load is ballistically nearly identical to the load I used for highpower competition for years I am very familiar with it and comfortable shooting it that far. I use the same .308 load for all my hunting, unless it's going to be bigger than elk. The only limiting factor that I've found is the wind; my .264 Win Mag bucks the wind a lot better than the .308 when you get out that far, and as the bullets have a higher BC it carries energy a bit better out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by brianakell
I don't think the 7 mag is going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not you'll be achieving kill shots vs. wound shots out past 300 yards vs. the .308. Energy doesn't make up for shot placement. However, the 7 mag's additional energy, if you're using bullets up toward the heavy end of its spectrum, can give you an additional edge; other than that it's the old adage of practice, practice, practice. There's also the old saying...Beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
As to the hunting gun/target gun question? Hunting guns tend to be lighter, for carrying; and target guns are heavier, since you're going to be shooting them a lot. You could use one for both, but either way it'll be a tradeoff.
On the difference between the 338 Win Mag and the Lapua , the Lapua is 400 - 800 FPS faster with any bullet you want to push and that is huge . Good high BC match bullets in 338 start at 250 grains and the WM will push them around 24 - 2500 , the Lapua is at 29 - 3100 depending on the barrel .
Long range shooting is about consistency , which means handloads or high quality match ammo . Since you shied away from the reloading question we'll assume this means your going to run factory ammo . There is no factory match ammo in 338WM and none that I know of in 7 RM so that leaves 308 .
Reloading adds a huge amount more flexibility and caliber choices . The 7mm calibers have a lot of really good bullets available but nobody other than the custom shops are loading ammo with them so its a handloading proposition . In 338 with the standard magnum bolt face action the RUM is a way better option because it is ballistically the same as the LM . The same ammo issues here though with it being a handload only option .
The issue with hunting bullets that are typically used with the factory 338WM and 7RM ammo is they are generally low BC bullets that dont fly as well as the match bullets . There are some exceptions , the Nosler Accubonds have good BC's for hunting bullets . The other issue with typical hunting bullets is due to there construction methods , they are more prone to center of gravity problems than the more conventional construction of match bullets . This leads to fliers and repeatability issues . Another thing is good hunting bullets are usually more expensive than the match stuff also .
The number to pay attention to in the ballistic charts is the wind number , the bullet path number is going to be a constant that is corrected for with the scope to match up point of aim with point of impact . The wind hold will be the variable that will be different every shot and the less that is the bigger error budget you have to work with when making the shot . The numbers on the ammo manufacturers sites are ok but typically not accurate representation of real world results and a better source is to go to JBM and run the numbers there .
In a do all rifle there are going to be compromises that are going to make it not optimum for any one task . Hunting guns are usually lighter with thinner profile barrels where target guns are typically heavier . If i was building / buying one gun to hunt with and shoot targets with also I'd lean towards the target size since the amount of use would lean way more to that end since most guns for hunting get used 1 or 2 times a year and target stuff can go on year round .
Another part of the equation is practice . Magnum calibers have more recoil and the lighter the rifle is the harder it is going to be to make reliable and more importantly repeatable shots . 308 is going to make practicing easier with lighter recoil and less cash expenditure for ammo . Get off the bench and get in the dirt and shoot how its going to be used in the real world . They're are no game animals in Co that 308 wont work on except maybe moose so given the parameters laid out thats why 308 would be my choice .
Your budget and game plan will make a huge difference in which direction I'd point You towards .
Well said C Ward. RUMS, and Lapuas are huge step up in power from a 338 winchester mag, as well as recoil. No matter the caliber, if you are really serious about long range shooting, then reloading is something you need to consider. From my experience, factory ammo is a joke compared to handloaded ammo.