Dumb-Assery in Minnesota

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I think the biggest and most obvious sign that there's more going on here than government thugs murdering peaceful protestors is right in front of us:

ICE has been operating for months in every state with targeted operations just like Minneapolis occurring in more than a dozen states, and yet the only place where there is violence and people being shot seems to be Minneapolis.

Also worth noting that the head of ICE is the same guy who led ICE during the Obama administration and the number of deportations and voluntary returns shows some enlightening trends.

From 1990 - 2008, the number of voluntary returns (people who were identified as illegal aliens who voluntarily returned to their place of origin) spanned from 811k - 1.67M, with the average being about 1.2M per year. The same time period, deportations (involuntary removal based on a court order) started at just 30k in 1990 and grew to 360k in 2008.

During the Obama years, deportations remained pretty steady-ish between 325k - 430k/yr, but voluntary returns sharply dropped from 811k/yr to only 105k/yr.

Since 2021, clear statistics have not been published by the federal government, but from non-authoritative sources, it appears that deportations are rising back to Obama-era numbers. Oddly, during COVID, the gov started including people turned back at the borders as voluntary returns. Because of this, the number of voluntary returns spiked to over 1M every year, but that number isn't comparable to earlier stats because it include a huge additional pool of data.

Bottom Line: DHS is deporting people at about the same rate as under Obama, and the guy running ICE is the same guy. The turbulence we're seeing in Minnesota is 100% manufactured.

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Fox:
You wanted logic and accountability.
Here it is.
I respect you, you have TDS, but are an intelligent thoughtful person.
So instead of toeing the democratic party line and some how make this about how evil and corrupt Trump and Admin are, realize the Dems are playing a game and they got caught.
And now instead of accepting responsibility, they are doing WHATEVER THEY CAN to deflect, deny and make counter accusations.

They want this chaos and if one of their foot soldiers is willing, literally, to take a bullet, even better.

And BP......... very well thought and written post!
He IS someone to listen to.

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Originally Posted by Oscar77

Fox:
You wanted logic and accountability.
Here it is.
I respect you, you have TDS, but are an intelligent thoughtful person.
So instead of toeing the democratic party line and some how make this about how evil and corrupt Trump and Admin are, realize the Dems are playing a game and they got caught.
And now instead of accepting responsibility, they are doing WHATEVER THEY CAN to deflect, deny and make counter accusations.

They want this chaos and if one of their foot soldiers is willing, literally, to take a bullet, even better.

And BP......... very well thought and written post!
He IS someone to listen to.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8OOgNkJNLA

It's a shitty officer with poor training and the anxiety reflexes of a gazelle. Anyone who thinks this ICU nurse is a "foot soldier" needs to get the hand removed from their rump, because they've advanced into full-on puppet mode.

The admin officials absolutely called him a domestic terrorist and that he had intent to murder law enforcement agents before they knew a damn thing.

There once was a time that 2A advocates advocated for the 2A, and advocated for concealed carry, etc., but now, so many of them have TDS that they advocate only for a populist that promises to send them money.

PROTESTING is a fucking protected right of the constitution.

POSSESSING a firearm is a fucking protected right of the constitution.

Which, particularly, do you guys take an issue with?

Also if you have read my posts you know I don't typecast people. Some officers are absolute dogshit, and you don't want to protect them. On the contrary, you guys respond with the party chants that it's all foot soldiers and democrat conspiracies and all this other hogwash.

I suggest fostering independent thought that doesn't have to tow your candidate's line. No, I don't like Trump, but I've voted for him previously. I am a conservative. Trump, is not. What are you?

Is interfering with a police or federal agency a right?

Why don’t you go out with your CCW piece and get in some cops face. Interfere with a cop while doing his job busting criminals.
Do it tonight and report back tomorrow.
We’ll wait.

Fox:
You're getting emotional here and combining things that aren't connected.
Wrapping the actions of the protestors and this gentleman in particular, with some constitutional right argument like freedom of speech or the 2nd Amendment is showing a complete lack of acknowledging what they and he did.
They were violently opposing the Officers as they attempted to carry out lawful and legitimate operations.
That ISNT covered in the Constitution, nor do the 2 amendments you've seized on justify that in any way.
They aren't and weren't Heros defending the Constitution, they were criminals trying to interfere with the Police.

As far as being "Foot Soldiers" ............ read this:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-ice-...nger-ceo-warns

And tell me who these people really are.

And as far as the particular Officer who fired, the Admin has said they are reviewing his actions.
It's you and others who have immediately jumped to conclusions, for example how is it that you: who weren't there, aren't (I assume) a Cop, and have some assorted videos to decide that "It's a shitty officer with poor training and the anxiety reflexes of a gazelle?"

Rob Doar, a lawyer for the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, suggests that Pretti?s gun could have gone off accidentally after the agent disarmed it, leading the other agent to open fire.

On X, he?wrote: ?I believe it?s highly likely the first shot was a negligent discharge from the agent in the grey jacket after he removed the Sig P320 from Pretti?s holster while exiting the scene."

A negligent discharge from a Sig P320 may have led to Pretti's death? Say it ain't so. Will Pretti's family sue Sig? Will the agent sue Sig?!

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Originally Posted by kidicarus13

Rob Doar, a lawyer for the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, suggests that Pretti?s gun could have gone off accidentally after the agent disarmed it, leading the other agent to open fire.

On X, he?wrote: ?I believe it?s highly likely the first shot was a negligent discharge from the agent in the grey jacket after he removed the Sig P320 from Pretti?s holster while exiting the scene."

A negligent discharge from a Sig P320 may have led to Pretti's death? Say it ain't so. Will Pretti's family sue Sig? Will the agent sue Sig?!

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Based on the video analysis I think it's more along the lines of likely tunnel vision by the anxiety guy in the back. He saw the guy in grey removing the gun from the wasteband and freaked. I think he went, in the words of Downey Jr, full retard. No question he drew and aimed square at the guys back right where the gun was just pulled by the guy in grey and did a lot of anxiety-footwork, shots rang out a half second later, while, AFAIK, the dudes hands were still on the ground.

It's a mistake that doesn't typecast all of ICE, the left is way off base with that. But so is the Trumps with all of the "foot soldiers" rhetortic. You guys should watch the video I posted, to see how that started. One of those ICE officers wanted to start a fight and kick some ass. Another one had the nerves of a gazelle at a watering hole. It was a wonderful combination of shitty employees.

ETA:
Also watch the video and let me know when exactly he was "interfering with a legitimate law enforcement work". Lets not argue smart vs dumb, how about legal vs illegal, constitutional vs unconstitutional, justifiable law enforcement actions vs unjustified. We don't get to kill people because they make somewhat unwise decisions, they have to pose a fucking threat of serious bodliy injury.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

I think the biggest and most obvious sign that there's more going on here than government thugs murdering peaceful protestors is right in front of us:

ICE has been operating for months in every state with targeted operations just like Minneapolis occurring in more than a dozen states, and yet the only place where there is violence and people being shot seems to be Minneapolis.

Also worth noting that the head of ICE is the same guy who led ICE during the Obama administration and the number of deportations and voluntary returns shows some enlightening trends.

From 1990 - 2008, the number of voluntary returns (people who were identified as illegal aliens who voluntarily returned to their place of origin) spanned from 811k - 1.67M, with the average being about 1.2M per year. The same time period, deportations (involuntary removal based on a court order) started at just 30k in 1990 and grew to 360k in 2008.

During the Obama years, deportations remained pretty steady-ish between 325k - 430k/yr, but voluntary returns sharply dropped from 811k/yr to only 105k/yr.

Since 2021, clear statistics have not been published by the federal government, but from non-authoritative sources, it appears that deportations are rising back to Obama-era numbers. Oddly, during COVID, the gov started including people turned back at the borders as voluntary returns. Because of this, the number of voluntary returns spiked to over 1M every year, but that number isn't comparable to earlier stats because it include a huge additional pool of data.

Bottom Line: DHS is deporting people at about the same rate as under Obama, and the guy running ICE is the same guy. The turbulence we're seeing in Minnesota is 100% manufactured.

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Who is in charge of ICE and when were they put in their position?

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

It's a shitty officer with poor training and the anxiety reflexes of a gazelle.

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Quite possibly true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

The admin officials absolutely called him a domestic terrorist and that he had intent to murder law enforcement agents before they knew a damn thing.

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Yeah, this was stupid. The immediate statements from the gov should have been "A full investigation will ensue and any law enforcement member found guilty of wrongdoing will be held accountable." Politicians at all levels should be trying to turn the heat DOWN right now, but that's just not what we saw immediately after the event.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoxtArt

There once was a time that 2A advocates advocated for the 2A, and advocated for concealed carry, etc., but now, so many of them have TDS that they advocate only for a populist that promises to send them money.

PROTESTING is a fucking protected right of the constitution.

POSSESSING a firearm is a fucking protected right of the constitution.

Which, particularly, do you guys take an issue with?

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Don't be so emotional... We all agree with protecting rights. The issue is that everybody ALSO has a right to make bad decisions and this guy made bad decisions. The whole thing was 100% preventable, but he put himself in the middle of an active law enforcement situation and then refused to comply with the officers. Why on earth would anybody do that? Imagine being a white guy in Minneapolis and sacrificing your entire life trying to stop ICE agents from arresting convicted predators who don't give two shits about you.

He voluntarily put himself in the situation. As far as I know he was not coerced. But there's some other weird decision-making going on too: He apparently didn't have a wallet or any sort of ID (or CCW card) on him. Why? And when confronted by ICE, if you know that you are carrying a gun, why wouldn't you put your hands up and walk away? Or comply with their direction? Tell them you don't want to escalate. Reach for the sky and tell them you are legally carrying a concealed handgun and you don't want to get involved in a confrontation. Why wouldn't you do that? The only logical reason is because he wanted to be involved in a confrontation. While carrying a concealed handgun.

Watching from the bleachers (with slow-mo views from multiple camera angles), it's easy to say I don't think he should have been shot. Obviously it was a chaotic situation that he COULD have de-escalated, but he chose not to until he lost all control of the situation.

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Originally Posted by crashdown

Who is in charge of ICE and when were they put in their position?

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Sorry, talking about Tom Homan. Not the ICE director, but the "Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations". He was in the same role for 3 years under Obama and then the actual Director of ICE for about 18 months under Trump 1.0.

[MOD: Let's stay on topic please]

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Sorry, talking about Tom Homan. Not the ICE director, but the "Executive Associate Director of Enforcement and Removal Operations". He was in the same role for 3 years under Obama and then the actual Director of ICE for about 18 months under Trump 1.0.

[MOD: Let's stay on topic please]

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Mod.. what’s “off topic”? Something was stated as being a fact regarding the topic at hand, a questions was asked tactfully to let the person correct themself and the correction was made.