Colorado, crap place for bugging out to.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I've heard you can starve to death eating squirrels because they don't have enough nutritional value. I have no idea if that is true though.

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Rabbit starvation. If all you eat is one thing eventually you'll die.

[QUOTE=jim;640817]Everyone & their brother will be beating the woods for food. Think it gets crowded [depending where you hunt] now, just wait. Unless you are going to pull a Jeremiah Johnson gl.
I have a spouse and a few others in the neighborhood i am committed to. Neighbor helping like minded neighbor.
Better defense in numbers, up to a point. There are a few places we have been offered to BO to, however being on the road after week 1 will not be pretty. Then again assessing the full extent of a meltdown w/out an eye in the sky is not a good option either. . I nor the spouse is humping to the hills with every other swinging dick. I'm standing my ground, at my age if there was a SHTF scenario better to die on my feet than live on my knees. YMMV of course.

Test time. Do a poll of the neighborhood, friends, who don't think like you do, john or jane q public. Ask them, if there was an emergency and they needed to move NOW, where would they go. I believe 60 % easy will say
"The Mountains? "

if you are talking about 6 months to a year later, then i agree. if you are talking about in the short time, say 1-3 months, i think you are nuts. 95% of people will hunker down and try to survive in their house and scavenge for food around town and take it by force from their neighbors. once all of that runs out the city is literally a wasteland with no food, then yes, everyone will head to the mountains. people that don't frequent forums such as this are generally incredibly non self sufficient. also, you don't rely 100% on game. you use it to supplement stored foods. yes, going way out in the middle of freaking nowhere in montana or something would be better, but your life would suck most of the time and if nothing ever happened it was a waste. i don't like being IN THE CITY but i like being near some niceties of modern civilization. the good news is i am perfectly happy in the wild too, so i can survive on my own. but the liklihood of such a catastrophic event is so remote, its not worth living in a place purposefully for that reason. now, preparing food, ammo, and having a plan is not a bad idea.

most people would not say theyd head to the mountains because most people have no shelter, food, water, self defense or knowledge to survive in the wild and they know this. if you ask "where would you go" then yes some will answer to the mountains because they don't know how else to answer. if you ask "what would you do" very few will say theyd pack up and go to the mountains. people on this board, yes. normal every day joe's no.

The over whelming answer would be "Walmart."

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Originally Posted by tmckay2

i don't get the hate of colorado for bugging out. in my opinion its better than almost anywhere in the country for many reasons. first, finding drinkable, right out of the stream, water is not difficult. anyone who has spent reasonable amount of time in the backcountry knows that. you have to get to higher elevations sure but so what. also, all we have to worry about in colorado is giardia, which while unpleasant it won't kill you so long as you can stay hydrated. also, its not like every time you drink from a stream that has giardia in it, you will get giardia. finally, there is a simply solution, boil the water.

second, you can find some incredibly difficult to traverse, isolated areas. if you spend a few days packing stuff in and out you can get to areas that are 100% unable to be reached by vehicle and will take a lot of effort to get to on foot. fortifying such an area would not be difficult and with a few people it would be fairly easy to defend.

people talk about the winters but in my opinion they are a good thing. who the F is going to come try to walk around in the back country to find some random small group of people in the middle of winter? you can hunker down during the winter in the mountains and you shouldn't be bothered by anyone. game is plentiful during that time of year. our mountains are nice in that there are few predators or dangers but many types of game. one elk or even a good sized deer could feed you for quite some time. rabbits can be found readily as can birds, fish, etc. it wouldn't be that difficult to find food.

as for the growing season, sure its short. you couldn't rely on planting seeds in the ground, you would need to plan ahead and have some potted supplies to grow some various plants. the nice thing is that while the soil isn't great the mountains get plenty of sunshine and water can be easily found. you can grow plants fairly easily if you really put in the effort. now for during the winter, besides meat, yes you are going to need to plan ahead. you will need some nonperishible types of foods and some canned/freeze dried stuff. again, to survive up there over a year you can't expect to just slap a few things on your back and go for it, you will have to prepare a bit and make several trips from your vehicle. but come on, whats a few days of packing stuff to a site for a year or more of security?

now as for the cold. look, you can't make some make shift shelter and survive, i agree. heres how i would do it. i have a cabelas bighorn tent. its 12x12, extremely durable including in winds, waterproof, and thick enough that its actually pretty warm. it weighs 70 lbs. it has a stove jack and i have a four dog stove that can heat a 12x12 area from -30 degrees to a reasonable 50 degrees and fires last quite a while. although pine is not ideal as a burning wood, there is plenty of it. during the days (i know because i have camped in it in the winter) the sun actually makes it pretty dang toasty in there. the stove also provides a surface to cook on. i have a vestibule for it that allows you to put all your wood and everything inside from the elements. to carry this, i have an eberlestock skycrane. if you take it apart you can put almost anything in there and strap it all together. carrying the 70 lbs is not bad, ive tested it. if its tiring, take the poles out and the tent then weighs around 35 lbs and the poles 35 lbs, so two people can't split it. the stove is fairly heavy but two people could very easily carry it up a trail. this shelter will be all youll need in the summer and winter, but of course you can use natural elements to protect it even more, such as building a wooden stacked wall around it to help insulate it and such.

again, if you are up there in the winter you are probably safe from people. snow will provide plenty of water and while food won't be cake, if you spend most of your days foraging and hunting for it, youll survive, particularly if you came prepared with some non perishable foods.

you could find a nicer place in the country, sure. but the point is, so will other people. you need to be in a semi difficult place to survive where preparedness are necessary. otherwise a whole bunch of other people will sooner or later move to place you are at.

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I do not hate Colorado as a BO option, I am going to BO to a Colorado location myself. But As One Of The Best Places to BO to Colorado is not as "useable" as other locations could be. In Colorado if you go to the plains you essentially have no water unless you find a working well that is deep enough and not being defended by the owner of the well. There are reservoirs like Sterling and Two Buttes but those will probably be commandeered by the blue helmets and guarded. If you go to the mountains you can find water more readily but unless the stream flows right near your location you most likely will spend a lot of energy carrying water over rocky, non-flat terrain to get it to your secluded location. The closer you are to an open water source the closer you are to people wandering through and finding you. A couple more years of drought here in Colorado and neither the mountains or the plains will be very sustainable for living, the forest fires and grass fires will be much more prevalent and destructive. Read about the Dirty Thirties to get an idea about prolonged drought conditions in Colorado. People salted and canned tumbleweeds just to have something to eat all winter. That is why I say SE Kansas or NE Oklahoma would be more of an ideal BO place. There are small secluded mountains with ample wooded cover that could be defended with small groups of people. There is more water in these locations, even in a drought there are more natural springs so there would be better chances of finding water. If you survived the first weeks or months you could dig a well without having to dig 90 feet or more just to reach the water table. The growing season there kicks the butt of our non-irrigated fields and mountains. There is more game for hunting and trapping in SE Kansas and NE Oklahoma then there is here in Colorado. Less predators such as bear, wolves, and mountain lions to compete with and deal with also. Being a native of Colorado I love it here and have lived both on the plains and in the mountains and have hunted in both areas. If you know what you are doing you could do well bugging out in Colorado. I just understand that other locations would be easier to survive in.

now, preparing food, ammo, and having a plan is not a bad idea.

This we can all agree on.One persons safe area is another one's worst nightmare.
Every time i drive out of town i look at what the area has potential wise, if we needed to go on the move. The pros of one become the con's of one 2 miles down the road.
Hopefully the issues that could bring us to such a scenario do not come to bear fruit.
Realistically only a fool would believe that last sentence.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I've heard you can starve to death eating squirrels because they don't have enough nutritional value. I have no idea if that is true though.

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I can't imagine that's true. They're certainly loaded with cholesterol, but with it, protein. In as little as 3 oz of edible meat off a squirrel you've got at least half a days worth of protein at minimum. Granted, we American's are used to eating a hell of a lot more than the "minimum" daily nutritional values ;). Calories overall, not necessarily protein, will be the hardest thing to accumulate daily.

Me and my buddy did a weekend survival camp just ate what we could shoot or catch, we were very hungry. Brook trout and one squirrel. The squirrel had less meat than a chicken wing. Brooks were good, but not enough. If you think you're going to walk into the woods and survive, you must be one bad ass skilled mofo.
A good place for info is saveourskills.com

After reading this thread, and several others recently, I have a glaring concern that i'm afraid a lot of you haven't considered. At least not vocally on these threads...

My question is this: If you plan to drive to your bug out location, have you stopped to consider the probability (not possibility) that people between your point of origin and your bug out location, will not want you to come where they are? Even if you're just "passing through".

Think defensively for a second... if you live on a country road or secluded area and you were bugging in, wouldn't you obstruct access to your area in any way possible? Even to people "passing through". Deter them before they get there, or make it as hard as possible to get there in the first place, so to speak? Things as simple as glass, nails, and screws in the road will lead to cars blocking it shortly there after.... rocks, downed trees, useless power-poles, concrete medians turned sideways, etc will be plentiful and just having a "4-wheel drive" doesn't do enough.

The way I see it, roads will be impassable one way or another and people are going to be on the defensive when you're intruding on their territory.

One example, and I can just see it now... i70 is blocked by who knows what, in Genessee, Floyd Hill, or at least the tunnel. ha.

You'll be best served to bug in as long as possible.

Not to mention someone occupying your bol before you get there. Or in my case, locals not knowing you because you are never around.

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Originally Posted by Sawin

After reading this thread, and several others recently, I have a glaring concern that i'm afraid a lot of you haven't considered. At least not vocally on these threads...

My question is this: If you plan to drive to your bug out location, have you stopped to consider the probability (not possibility) that people between your point of origin and your bug out location, will not want you to come where they are? Even if you're just "passing through".

Think defensively for a second... if you live on a country road or secluded area and you were bugging in, wouldn't you obstruct access to your area in any way possible? Even to people "passing through". Deter them before they get there, or make it as hard as possible to get there in the first place, so to speak? Things as simple as glass, nails, and screws in the road will lead to cars blocking it shortly there after.... rocks, downed trees, useless power-poles, concrete medians turned sideways, etc will be plentiful and just having a "4-wheel drive" doesn't do enough.

The way I see it, roads will be impassable one way or another and people are going to be on the defensive when you're intruding on their territory.

One example, and I can just see it now... i70 is blocked by who knows what, in Genessee, Floyd Hill, or at least the tunnel. ha.

You'll be best served to bug in as long as possible.

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Another reason we are staying put. i don't mind going up against an opposing team, if they have bad intentions. However i also do not want to mix it up with locals who would be doing the same thing we are doing.

Know your neighbors & neighborhood, know security.