Let's talk hardwood flooring. Who's got them or has had them? Pros? Cons?

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Originally Posted by Jer

Looks good. Thoughts on engineered versus solid? Sounds like the engineered may be cheaper but doesn't last well at all. What about some of the newer versions that are supposedly better? I think I'm still leaning towards solid real stuff but at this point open to new innovations that may be better if they exist.

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It depends on quality. The cheapest engineered have a rotary cut top or wear layer. The reason that is used is it has the least amount of waste. The problem is wood will attempt to regain it's orginal shape and rotary cut lamella (layer) on floors are notorious for cracking and peeling. What you want to look for is a plain sawn lamella (top layer) that is at least 2-4 mm thick (the company I rep only makes 4mm top layers.). A 2mm thick top layer can be sanded once, a 4 mm top layer can be sanded 2-3 times which will give you a lifetime of use. To contrast a solid hardwood floor can be sanded 3-4 times.

There are actually some advantages to a quality engineered floor. One they are less likely to be affected by changes in humidity (given floating or glued down with a 100% urethane glue) as the whole floor tends to move together. The other is they can be installed below grade over conrete. The last is they can be floated which makes installation 10x easier than stapling/glue down. The disadvantage of floating is if your subfloor is not near perfect, resanding it down the line will be difficult if not impossible, and it is possible to have places on the floor that flex when you step on it. A glued or stapled down engineered floor will not have those issues. Acoustically you can match the sound of a solid floor by putting cork as an underlayment. That will raise your job cost by 30-50 cents a square foot.

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Originally Posted by William

It depends on quality. The cheapest engineered have a rotary cut top or wear layer. The reason that is used is it has the least amount of waste. The problem is wood will attempt to regain it's orginal shape and rotary cut lamella (layer) on floors are notorious for cracking and peeling. What you want to look for is a plain sawn lamella (top layer) that is at least 2-4 mm thick (the company I rep only makes 4mm top layers.). A 2mm thick top layer can be sanded once, a 4 mm top layer can be sanded 2-3 times which will give you a lifetime of use. To contrast a solid hardwood floor can be sanded 3-4 times.

There are actually some advantages to a quality engineered floor. One they are less likely to be affected by changes in humidity (given floating or glued down with a 100% urethane glue) as the whole floor tends to move together. The other is they can be installed below grade over conrete. The last is they can be floated which makes installation 10x easier than stapling/glue down. The disadvantage of floating is if your subfloor is not near perfect, resanding it down the line will be difficult if not impossible, and it is possible to have places on the floor that flex when you step on it. A glued or stapled down engineered floor will not have those issues. Acoustically you can match the sound of a solid floor by putting cork as an underlayment. That will raise your job cost by 30-50 cents a square foot.

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Great info. It sounds like engineered wood can actually be better than solid wood if you get the right product then, right? I was scared away from the horror stories but it sounds like those may have been due to an inferior product that's not exclusive to the entire segment.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Great info. It sounds like engineered wood can actually be better than solid wood if you get the right product then, right? I was scared away from the horror stories but it sounds like those may have been due to an inferior product that's not exclusive to the entire segment.

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That is true. Beware products made in China or sold by companies with initials LL. There are plenty of great options from US and European manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by William

That is true. Beware products made in China or sold by companies with initials LL. There are plenty of great options from US and European manufacturers.

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Let me ask you this then, if you were going to rip out carpet/pad in the house you live in and do something other than carpet/pad.... what would you go with & why?

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Originally Posted by Jer

Let me ask you this then, if you were going to rip out carpet/pad in the house you live in and do something other than carpet/pad.... what would you go with & why?

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I did just rip out around 800 square feet of beer stained (not sure how that happened) and pet vomit stained carpet. Going to preface it with I don't have kids or large energetic dogs in the house. If I didnt have a business selling hardwood floors the other product I would look at besides hardwood is bamboo (with formaldehyde free glue). Personally I would keep/add tile in kitchens or bathrooms. Both hardwoods and bamboo are easy to keep clean and spilled beers and pet vomit will come up quickly even if you find it a couple days later. Both are natural products, are long lasting, and have a natural beauty where every board is unique. Personally I am not a big fan of laminate because of the limited number of patterns used to create it and the fact that the top layer is essentially plastic although it works great in some situations. At one point I would have considered cork until I was on a job site with new cork and the initial VOC emissions were nauseating. This may not be the case with all cork floors but it turned me off.

Two more pics of hardwood floors I was involved with. The first is an engineered American Walnut here in the Springs (very soft, so a no shoes kind of floor). The second is a solid floor in a model home in Minnesota.

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Originally Posted by William

I did just rip out around 800 square feet of beer stained (not sure how that happened) and pet vomit stained carpet. Going to preface it with I don't have kids or large energetic dogs in the house. If I didnt have a business selling hardwood floors the other product I would look at besides hardwood is bamboo (with formaldehyde free glue). Personally I would keep/add tile in kitchens or bathrooms. Both hardwoods and bamboo are easy to keep clean and spilled beers and pet vomit will come up quickly even if you find it a couple days later. Both are natural products, are long lasting, and have a natural beauty where every board is unique. Personally I am not a big fan of laminate because of the limited number of patterns used to create it and the fact that the top layer is essentially plastic although it works great in some situations. At one point I would have considered cork until I was on a job site with new cork and the initial VOC emissions were nauseating. This may not be the case with all cork floors but it turned me off.

Two more pics of hardwood floors I was involved with. The first is an engineered American Walnut here in the Springs (very soft, so a no shoes kind of floor). The second is a solid floor in a model home in Minnesota.

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So talk to me about hardwood v bamboo then. The thought had crossed my mind but then I started hearing horror stories although now it seems as though most of those may have been an inferior engineered product and possibly a better product would hold up better and put it back in the running. I would have thought that by now bamboo would be less expensive than comparable hardwood since it grows so quickly and is so much easier to produce. It seems as though demand has kept the prices up to where hardwood is or more still. I like the idea of soft as we go barefoot but I'm concerned with long-term reliability & durability if we do that. I also had a buddy that did their kitchen floor in cork because his wife wanted a softer surface but after doing that they both swore they'd never do cork flooring again. Just one opinion I guess but it was enough to scare me away from attempting it and will likely just opt for tile in the kitchen & bathrooms. We've got vinyl flooring for now that will be fine until I feel like taking on tile work but as bad as this carpet is I think this project should come first.

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Originally Posted by Jer

So talk to me about hardwood v bamboo then. The thought had crossed my mind but then I started hearing horror stories although now it seems as though most of those may have been an inferior engineered product and possibly a better product would hold up better and put it back in the running. I would have thought that by now bamboo would be less expensive than comparable hardwood since it grows so quickly and is so much easier to produce. It seems as though demand has kept the prices up to where hardwood is or more still. I like the idea of soft as we go barefoot but I'm concerned with long-term reliability & durability if we do that. I also had a buddy that did their kitchen floor in cork because his wife wanted a softer surface but after doing that they both swore they'd never do cork flooring again. Just one opinion I guess but it was enough to scare me away from attempting it and will likely just opt for tile in the kitchen & bathrooms. We've got vinyl flooring for now that will be fine until I feel like taking on tile work but as bad as this carpet is I think this project should come first.

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Quality Bamboo is not cheap, and the cheap bamboo has formaldehyde glues. If you take a green product like Bamboo and lace it down with chemicals it isn't all that green anymore. So it is a matter of preference based partially on what you like the look of.

Here is a good article on the pros and cons of each.

My biased opinion is to buy hardwood and my prices on quality hardwood in Colorado are hard to beat :) But good luck which ever way you go.

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Originally Posted by William

Quality Bamboo is not cheap, and the cheap bamboo has formaldehyde glues. If you take a green product like Bamboo and lace it down with chemicals it isn't all that green anymore. So it is a matter of preference based partially on what you like the look of.

Here is a good article on the pros and cons of each.

My biased opinion is to buy hardwood and my prices on quality hardwood in Colorado are hard to beat :) But good luck which ever way you go.

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I'm not as concerned about being green although if I can it's a nice bonus. I get what you're saying about cheap bamboo & probably wouldn't opt to go that way anyway. If the good stuff was that much more cost prohibitive it wouldn't be a consideration anyway. I have been leaning hardwood the entire time but wanted to make sure I was considering all of my options and I know that bamboo has gained in popularity so I wanted to see why and if it had advanced any further since I gave it a cursory look years ago. It seems as though not much has changed though really which makes hardwood a more viable solution. I get that you sell hardwood and appreciate your frankness on the topic. I would also give you a call about sourcing my materials from you if you were closer but getting that much hardwood all the way up here (about 2.5hrs one way) would be cost prohibitive I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Jer

I'm not as concerned about being green although if I can it's a nice bonus. I get what you're saying about cheap bamboo & probably wouldn't opt to go that way anyway. If the good stuff was that much more cost prohibitive it wouldn't be a consideration anyway. I have been leaning hardwood the entire time but wanted to make sure I was considering all of my options and I know that bamboo has gained in popularity so I wanted to see why and if it had advanced any further since I gave it a cursory look years ago. It seems as though not much has changed though really which makes hardwood a more viable solution. I get that you sell hardwood and appreciate your frankness on the topic. I would also give you a call about sourcing my materials from you if you were closer but getting that much hardwood all the way up here (about 2.5hrs one way) would be cost prohibitive I'm sure.

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I am a direct sales rep for a manufacturer. We ship all over the contiguous US directly from our manufacture's warehouse near Toronto. I won't be offended if you don't buy from me of course that is just business, but for quality flooring I can usually beat the to your door price of the brick and mortar stores. Are you installing yourself?

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Originally Posted by William

I am a direct sales rep for a manufacturer. We ship all over the contiguous US directly from our manufacture's warehouse near Toronto. I won't be offended if you don't buy from me of course that is just business, but for quality flooring I can usually beat the to your door price of the brick and mortar stores. Are you installing yourself?

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How does it work if I order 10% more than my measurements to be safe? I know if I buy local I can simply return the unused portion for a refund but if I'm shipping how does this work? Also, you're able to beat local shop's prices even with freight shipping fees?