Colorado CCW Training Warning

Foxtrot,

You are absolutely 100% correct. When I went to my NRA Instructor's Course, I saw the "profile" you are referring to and it made me sick. Something that will REALLY make you vomit - Iowa recently passed a conceal-carry law that mirrors Colorado's in most ways. When this happened, those types of instructors you are referring to FLOCKED to Iowa and started pushing out 4-hour classes of students by the hundreds at $50 a pop. I was also informed they were booking classes months in advance and filling them without problem.

A good friend of mine who lives in the southeast Iowa region went to one of those classes and was confused after it was all said & done. I did him a favor when I went out to visit & gave him a one-day class. Afterwards he stated how pissed he was about spending $50 on a garbage class from the previous instructor. The classes that don't require live fire is just beyond me and I don't know why they won't change that in the training requirement for CCW. These lazy, know-it-all instructors that only care about making $$$ and not producing quality over quantity just blows my mind. Your students are a reflection of you. If you teach garbage, you produce garbage.

I moved from Missouri 3 months ago. Since I plan to obtain my CHL from Colorado (just picked it up last week), I took a refresher course in Missouri taught by an NRA certified instructor who is also a deputy with the local Sheriff Department. In Missouri, the state law requires CCW training to be at least 8 hours long. It is also required for the training to include live fire practice and qualification. The practice part must be done using both pistol and revolver. But the participant can choose to qualify using either one depending on which kind of handgun he/she plans to carry. Overall, we fired almost 100 rounds of ammo from each gun (pistol and revolver) using various shooting scenarios.

The course also covers a lot of legal nuances of concealed carry. Having an instructor who is also a law enforcement officer also gave us a lot of insights into general LEO's perceptions on how they deal with citizens with concealed carry permit.

I also had taken an NRA basic pistol course. IMHO, the NRA basic pistol course is inadequate as a concealed carry training. I am also an NRA certified instructor (rifle) so I know what the goals set by NRA in designing these courses. These basic courses are designed to train people how to handle, maintain, store, and shoot the gun safely. But the NRA never intended these courses to prepare people to carry and possibly use firearms for defensive purposes. The NRA basic course covers parts of the curriculum needed for CHL training. But it is not adequate as a CHL training by itself. Now, some instructors could modify and expand the basic pistol course to cover CHL knowledge. This will also make the course much longer. If taught properly and thoughtfully, an NRA basic course should take between 8-12 hours. So an expanded one is likely to take longer.

I'm a big advocate of training. Always have been.

But I'm a bigger advocate of limited government involvement.

This thread has been alive since 2006 and NOBODY has been able to justify a higher training standard than what the State of Colorado requires for a concealed handgun permit.

They don't "feel" the standards are adequate or they don't "like" the fact that it's so easy for people to get a permit. NOBODY has been able to provide any sort of hard evidence for why certain standards should be met.

Residents in 4 states now need neither a permit or training. Where's all the mayhem and death and destruction from inadequately trained gun toters in WY, AK, VT and AZ?

Some day, those of you who advocate stricter training standards are going to get just that. I just hope you can meet that standard.

Agreed, there is no proof of a need for stricter training/requirements, and there is no blood in the streets either.

Having said that, there is barely 1% (290k was the last number I saw) of the population in shall issue and constitutional states actually carrying.

Statistically speaking, it is extremely unlikely that 99.5% (yes I made that up) of us will ever have to use our weapon. Compound that by those that go to places were gun buster signs (criminal enhancement) are put up, and choose to comply, they wont have their weapon anyway, where they are slightly more likely to encounter a need.

And even then we still are blessed by the bias media and Brady Bunch to have the pleasure of reading in the news of some nitwit that has a CC and did something epically stupid and mad us all look bad (which would have been eliminated by stricter requirements - although you can't fix stupid).

NDs in public, lost weapon, unjustified use or display, ect. It's still less than 1% of those that carry are convicted of a crime of some sort. Lower percentage than LEOs, judges and lawyers, and polar opposite of politicians.

I suppose if there were closer to 10% - 15% of the population carrying, then we might, might see more of that need for training or requirements.

Thanks, Bailey. I think you said it nicely. People sometimes forget that they should be careful what they wish for.

Highlands Ranch Firearms, they offer a home study course for 50.00 that is supposed to be legit.
Anyone know anything about them ?

Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-203-VI

VI - A training certificate from a handgun training class obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application. The applicant shall submit the original training certificate or a photocopy thereof that includes the original signature of the class instructor. In obtaining a training certificate from a handgun training class, the applicant shall have discretion in selecting which handgun training class to complete.

As taken from the Jefferson County website -
Where can I get a firearms training certificate?
A firearms training certificate can be obtained through any NRA, gun club, shooting range or weapons training facility that has a "certified instructor." You can verify the instructor is certified by their credentials. If the instructor is NRA certified, they will have an instructor's certificate as well as a wallet-sized card which shows an expiration date. If expired, the instructor is no longer allowed to be teaching classes. Once you have decided on a facility to receive your training through, you will need to obtain the following required item from the certified instructor to be submitted with your application:

• A training certificate that includes: (your name, course name, date of course, and the instructor's original signature);

A "certified instructor" is an instructor for a firearms safety course who is certified as a firearms instructor by a county, municipal, state, or federal law enforcement agency; the Colorado POST board; a federal military agency; or a national nonprofit organization that certifies firearms instructors, operates national firearms competitions, and provides training, including courses in personal protection, in small arms safety, use and marksmanship.
A "handgun training class" means:

• A law enforcement training firearms safety course;
• A firearms safety course offered by a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or a public or private institution or organization or firearms training school, that is open to the general public and is taught by a certified instructor; or
• A firearms safety course or class that is offered and taught by a certified instructor.

If you have doubts, contact your local Sheriff and find out if they will accept it as training.

Thank You, I'll look into it deeper !

As a Certified Firearms Instructor, (USAF and NRA), I'd like to comment on a couple of posts I've seen on this last page. First, I fully agree that any training for a CHP in this state "SHOULD" require hands on, bullets down range, live fire training. HOWEVER, right now, the state does not require this, and as such, if someone refuses to shoot, by law, they don't have to. Yes, they are stupid IMHO to refuse such training, but without a state requirement, they have a right to deny it.

I just signed on to teach for a group out of FL, that doesn't require live fire. At first it churrned my gut, but after speaking with the company owner, I could see his point in not requiring it. He said that initially they did require range time, but after about a half dozen students had called to ask why he was putting a higher restriction than the state required, he dropped it as a requirement, but still offers the live fire at no additional costs. From both a legal and business stand point, I can agree with this, yet still as an instructor I'm still not happy with it. Both the Air Force and NRA require live fire to complete their training, and I still have not fully come to grips with signing a document that will allow someone to obtain a CHP, when I don't know that they can hit the broad side of a barn. Time will tell, I guess.

The second point I'd like to address is that some believe that any requirement for training is an impingment on their 2nd amendment rights. While I can understand where you are coming from, I could not disagree with you more. In the days where sons and daughters learned from their parents, how to shoot at an early age, and everyone knew how to shoot and handle firearms safely, the requirement for training would have been rediculous. However, in this day&age, the vast majority of people have never handled a real firearm before. For the past several decades, most of "Civilized Folk" have relied on police for personal protection. We have lost that access to Home Training.

I spend a great deal of time in WY, and yes, they do allow permitless concealed carry. The reason for this was to protect farmer and ranchers who open carry on their land, and then throw on a coat when the weather turns, and they head into town. This was the basis for the law in WY, however they still have a permit that has a slightly tougher requirement than CO.

The fact of the matter is that knowledge is power. The more you know about concealed carry and the laws of the states you carry in, the less likely you are to screw up. Take a look at George Zimmerman in FL. While this case is not yet put to rest, it's pretty clear that he was treading deadly close to a fine line of Florida Statues governing use of force. Unless you want to be the next George Zimmerman, you need to know the laws of the state you carry in, and the pitfalls they contain.

For instance, did you know that under the Colorado Revised Statutes, you can perform a Citizen's Arrest? Did you also know that you MUST Witness the crime in question? Whats more, did you know that if you are holding a suspect at gunpoint, waiting for the cops to arrive, IF you have the individual move from one place to another, that you have just commited First Degree Kidnapping? Thats a real fine line between doing what you think is right to becomming a criminal yourself.

So for those who believe that training requirements are a pinch on their rights, stop and think about it for a moment. Maybe its not because the state wants to keep you from carrying, maybe they just don't want to see good people get on the wrong side of the law. IMHO, Colorado should do like Utah and actually require people to take a course in the relavent laws before issuing a permit.

Well, Frank, I just hope you're never in charge of deciding who gets to carry and who doesn't. Once again, more of the same "armed people scare me" crap and no compelling reason to have more restrictive training requirements. Yawn.

Can we let this thread die? Please.