Schmidt and Bender...

[islandermyk]

... what's the wait time?

Okay, so I finally took the step in ordering this freaken thing.

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/pr...iilpmtclt.html

... anyone order anything similar recently and had to wait or still waiting for the product to arrive at your door, and how long have you waited or been waiting? Just trying to get a feel on the wait time.

I ordered one with a Horus reticle, MRAD turrets, first Focal plane.... through MilehighShooting...

I'm getting 11 months for a wait time at the latest... maybe a year from what I gathered from Bob at Firingline..... and so the wait begins

[asmo]

I put my order in for something similar in December. It was promised (by S&B) to be here by March. Yesterday I was told that there is no 'firm' ETA.... I want a H59 but I ordered an H58 just to get it here. Was told that the H59 would be 'a few months' after the "initial" orders were done.

Thinking about saying f-it and just getting a P4F since you can find those around. But in reality if I wasn't doing a H58/9 I'd go with the H2CMR (also impossible to get in).

[islandermyk]

dang...

I got to look through the glass of a S&B, NF, and the Bushnel...

.. when people talk about glass... man, you can tell the difference.
I grabbed the S&B first, started to mess with it and noticed that the eye relief was so forgiving.. and it didn't take me long to realize that the reticle was always clear no matter how much I messed with the settings
So I grabbed the others and... man... I easily got discouraged with how much I had to move the scopes back and forth to get a good sight on things, and the reticles weren't as clear even while messing and adjusting everything.

All I can say. Might as well get what you want if you had to wait for a long period... at least you had a 5 month eta... I was given 11 months to a year

[C Ward]

3-20's are starting to trickle in , best place to find one in stock is probably Eurooptics . Schmidt has been promising this scope for almost 3 years with to many promised delivery dates to count , I wouldn't hold my breath .

[islandermyk]

3-20's are starting to trickle in , best place to find one in stock is probably Eurooptics . Schmidt has been promising this scope for almost 3 years with to many promised delivery dates to count , I wouldn't hold my breath .

I've heard this too.... the slowly trickling in part... 2 or 3 of'em around Colorado for sale, but not the reticle I want.

The weird thing is there are a handful of'em PMII 5-25x56's around for sale or trade...

[C Ward]

Unless your dead set on a 3 - 20 the 5 - 25 is just as functional . Got a 5 - 25 late last year as I got tired of waiting and I'm thinking of just getting a 2nd one instead of waiting some more .

If you've never shot the horus reticule I recommend that you do before committing to it as its a love / hate deal and pretty much all the competitive shooters that I shoot with hate it for a number of reasons .

The best mil reticule S&B have right now IMO is the H2CMR followed by the P4F . The horus reticule is to thick and to busy for smaller targets and doesn't do anything that isn't possible with " standard " reticules .

[islandermyk]

Unless your dead set on a 3 - 20 the 5 - 25 is just as functional . Got a 5 - 25 late last year as I got tired of waiting and I'm thinking of just getting a 2nd one instead of waiting some more .

If you've never shot the horus reticule I recommend that you do before committing to it as its a love / hate deal and pretty much all the competitive shooters that I shoot with hate it for a number of reasons .

The best mil reticule S&B have right now IMO is the H2CMR followed by the P4F . The horus reticule is to thick and to busy for smaller targets and doesn't do anything that isn't possible with " standard " reticules .

As for the reticle. I just love the idea of the whole Horus thing. I'm that guy that does a lot of hold offs. If the reticle lines are thicker than my Vortex Viper (it's like putting a finger on a 12"x18" at 1100 yards) I'll be butt-hurt about it

I may consider the 5-25... if it does help it come along quicker... I need to make some phone calls

[C Ward]

The reticule line thickness on the horus is comparable to the standard thick P4 . The other issue is the horus reticules typically move what would be the center crosshair aiming point where it is at approx 1/3 down from the top instead of the center , obscuring even more of the sight picture .

The principal behind the horus reticule can be accomplished with any reticule with graduations , spot the impact , measure the correction , apply the correction and shoot .

The problem that we've all found with the horus was its like shooting through a sheet of graph paper and unless the light conditions are perfect it makes spotting impacts near impossible . When shooting at smaller targets , 2- 3 MOA and down , the target becomes lost in the mix , especially when you add in things like shadows and mirage .

Making hits at distance is all about managing errors and in the group of shooters we have at the matches we shoot , CRC , PWSA , NRAWC SRM + MRM , Steel Safari , and a couple more , it is almost exclusively dial elevation and hold wind . The elevation variable is know and corrected for and the attention is then given to making a good wind call and good shot . With the horus reticule you have to find the proper hold for elevation and then make a wind call and then find the spot on the graph paper and then put it on the target and hope somewhere in the process you didn't use the 10.4 line instead of the 10.6 line because you've only got 15 seconds to make the shot . Over the years and trial and error we've all came to the dial elevation hold wind standpoint because in the field practical matches we shoot it work's with the least possibility of screw ups .

One of the regular shooters we have is an instructor for the 10th group sniper course and his opinion on the horus is it works great for people but after that it is lacking . His preferred system is a scope with an IPHY reticule and knobs because he says it is easier math for ranging targets and calculating hold offs . And yes he did go to Hodnett's class and dialed elevation the whole time because thats what he has found works in the real world .

Oh also one of the biggest proponents of the horus system from the very start , Jacob Bynum from Rifles Only , abandoned it years ago for these reasons too .

[islandermyk]

If worse comes to worse... I'll give S&B a call and send it back to them and get another reticle put in.... the MSR would be my other choice, but I am willing to play with the Horus and put up with it as long as I did with the Vortex I have right now...
I stuck with the Vortex to learn a little about milling things out and range finding. Pretty hard when I suck at numbers , but I understand a lot better cause of it...
Now with this Horus deal.. I think it'll be fun trying to figure all this out.. If I had to move to another reticle, hopefully I have those faint Horus grid lines engraved into my eyes

[TriggerHappy]

I'm jealous. I think I need a job at Asig...