Have we lost our Patriotism?

[MED]

No actually the death of the Founding Fathers' Ideals started in 1913 with the rise of the Progressive movement and the presidency of Woodrow Wilson.

Woodrow Wilson was certainly a douch, but the first wound on the constitution was in 1937. Until then, limits were placed on government. The consequences of the civil war and the move to federalism is an interesting area of study.

[Zundfolge]

Woodrow Wilson was certainly a douch, but the first wound on the constitution was in 1937. Until then, limits were placed on government. The consequences of the civil war and the move to federalism is an interesting area of study.

The first wounds on the constitution were in 1913 with the 16th and 17th amendments ... which came about because of the rise of the Progressive movement and the Wilson presidency.

If you don't buy that (since you are establishing the line as "limits placed on government") then the first wound was 1919 with the passage of the 18th amendment (which used the constitution to limit the rights of the people instead of the power of the government for the first time).

My only point is that America has been infected with the disease of the left for longer than people realize. At this point the damage is what it is so it's somewhat academic to argue when the first wound was inflicted.

[MED]

The first wounds on the constitution were in 1913 with the 16th and 17th amendments ... which came about because of the rise of the Progressive movement and the Wilson presidency.

If you don't buy that (since you are establishing the line as "limits placed on government") then the first wound was 1919 with the passage of the 18th amendment (which used the constitution to limit the rights of the people instead of the power of the government for the first time).

My only point is that America has been infected with the disease of the left for longer than people realize. At this point the damage is what it is so it's somewhat academic to argue when the first wound was inflicted.

This would be an interesting discussion. The progressive movement and women's suffrage was a progression from the abolitionist movement. It is rather interesting to trace it back. At least the amendments followed a process, and I am OK with that even though I may or may not agree with them. If the programs in the New Deal followed the same process where say Social Security was created and limited to a program authorized by an amendment to the constitution, I might disagree but a least it would be defined and limited. However, by circumventing this process, anything can happen and it has. By opening the Commerce Clause as a catch all to any government program, we now have a multi-trillion dollar budget full of entitlement programs, the EPA, etc. I understand that this is the Nirvana of the people you mention, but it is their victory and the foundation of what we have today. And yes, the 16th amendment was a really stupid move!

[<MADDOG>]

OK...maybe I should have expanded on that because I think you can be against the war and fully support our troops. But to keep this response to a manageable level let me just give you the reader's digest version: when it's said by a solid leftist it's probably going to be apparent in the rest of their behavior and lifestyle. When someone like you or I say it (because frankly I'm way past my tolerance level for the BS in Afghanistan) it's for other reasons. I think you'll get my overall drift with having said that. Because a real explanation would take pages.

A leftist will talk to a soldier and say: "Wow. I, like, really support you and all but how can you follow orders from someone like Bush who's killed millions of innocent people by lying about WMDs, blah, blah, blah". It'll all be bullshit, but, yeah, he supports the troops.

A righty (who's against the war) will say: "I'm glad I never had to serve under a fuck-stick CinC like Obama under those bullshit ROEs that are getting our guys killed for no reason. We should be going in to win the war or we shouldn't be going in."

The left generally has no understanding of honor, duty and sacrifice.

Does that help you understand what I meant?

[earplug]

Lincoln sucked my patriotic fever out.

[blacklabel]

Lincoln sucked my patriotic fever out.

[Mtn.man]

Revolution ..... Says Jefferson.

[Ronin13]

Is there any credence to what I just heard... Paul Ryan voted for reducing pay for active duty and disabled vets? I feel dirty having voted for that man to be VP if it's true...

[spqrzilla]

I was just thinking about this earlier today... I was reading a bunch of stuff about the whole Robertson fiasco and thought back to 2001. Remember after 9/11 how our nation came together as one? Everyone waved their flags, stickers and those yellow ribbons adorned nearly every car. Fast forward just a few years and we've become the most split I've seen in my nearly 30 years of being alive.

Didn't happen. There were left wing political attacks immediately.

[spqrzilla]

Woodrow Wilson was certainly a douch, but the first wound on the constitution was in 1937. Until then, limits were placed on government. The consequences of the civil war and the move to federalism is an interesting area of study.

Woodrow Wilson had people rounded up and jailed for advocating resistance to the WWI era draft. It was the most repressive time in modern US history. Wilson was the worst President in modern history - the current douche is just crowded him in second place.