CRC Proposal for new range/ban of steel on HP range

[DeusExMachina]

Berm 13 is 100 yard with 3 sides, and berm 14 is 200 yards with 2 sides. Shouldn't the allowance of steel be opposite?

[MarkCO]

Where is the Silhouette range placement, are they adding distance to the range or within the current distances?

Replacing current gongs

Berm 13 is 100 yard with 3 sides, and berm 14 is 200 yards with 2 sides. Shouldn't the allowance of steel be opposite?

Depends on how you count the split berm, I have been counting it as one berm. You can shoot steel from the pad on the 200 yard, but you can not shoot steel in the 100 yard berm.

[rustycrusty]

What is the rationale behind the east berm steel ruling (as well as the draw certification)?
- the design of open pistol berms -such as the east berms- is to facilitate IDPA/USPSA/Steel Challenge type events AND ALLOW PRACTICE FOR SUCH SPORTS to take place.

The 'outpouring of protest' pertained to the restrictions on shooting of steel targets throughout the facility. - if such a thread had been started earlier I'm sure that the draw restriction would have elicited the same angry reactions from people. - This is the first time the BoD has cared to put an ear to cries of protest.

If this thread is what the BoD is referring to when mentioning a large protest then we need more of it.

The Bod seem very out of touch if the steel shooting sports have crept up on them. This is years in now... We need to keep up.

this whole knee-jerk reaction restriction nonsense - starting with the 'QuickDraw certification' isn't LIKE panic legislation... This IS panic legislation.

MarkCO- I know you are pressing for our club to adapt and keep relavant and attractive to shooters in these 'new' sports, but there must be a better way of keeping the BoD from going all NYC on us... There has to be a better way.

Panic sets in for me when I think of having to use a public range to practice steel challenge- especially knowing that the club that hosts the matches has decided that individual practice of the sport is 'too dangerous'.

What kind of message does that send?

[merl]

merl, sent your thanks e-mail yet?

Two pieces of steel and a stand for the HP range, 4 pieces of steel for the Silhouette range and 2 pieces of steel and a stand for the 200 yard (berm 13) have been ordered.

Steel is NOT allowed on the 100 yard (berm 12) east range bay.

Not yet. I want to add a question directly about concealed carry as the rules seem to have changed there. But there is on reason to combine them so I'll drop a short thank you today.

Would steel would be allowed at the 100y berm along the same rules as the rest of East, no centerfilre rifle? Someone want to do offhand with their hi-point it would be OK.

[MarkCO]

What is the rationale behind the east berm steel ruling (as well as the draw certification)?
- the design of open pistol berms -such as the east berms- is to facilitate IDPA/USPSA/Steel Challenge type events AND ALLOW PRACTICE FOR SUCH SPORTS to take place.

MarkCO- I know you are pressing for our club to adapt and keep relavant and attractive to shooters in these 'new' sports, but there must be a better way of keeping the BoD from going all NYC on us... There has to be a better way.

Would steel would be allowed at the 100y berm along the same rules as the rest of East, no centerfilre rifle? Someone want to do offhand with their hi-point it would be OK.

I will try to combine these two questions as it was my error...

Rifle (centerfire rifle calibers), on steel, is not allowed on ANY of the East full bays. The 200 yard berm CAN have centerfire shot at steel provided the targets are set back in the berm AND you shoot from the elevated pad. If you want to shoot .22RF or PCC on steel in the rest of the East bays, that is okay provided you have the clearance. On the club provided paper backers, sure, you can shoot CF rifle. When you use the provided backers RETURN them to their storage location and PICK UP YOUR targets and trash (directed at whoever is a range pig). I will say this. The BOD looks to be more inclined to suspend or revoke memberships for those who do not take care of the range. Just follow the rules, they are not that hard.

However, to say the BOD does not listen, or that this is the first time they have responded to protest is ignorant of what the BOD does and or has done. EVERY single time I have asked to address an issue with the BOD, they have listened and responded. My history at CRC is only a few years, but I believe great strides have been made to both improve the facility and to understand the needs of the practical/tactical shooters coming into the club. I asked for the split berm as well as the 100 and 200 on the East range just to afford more options, and the BOD approved the funds and got them built. Now they are looking at the creation of a new range for LR steel.

That said, there have been some serious issues with safety, ignorance and just plain stupidity by some new members. When one is a straight line bench type shooter and they see the new folks come in and then they see those types of actions, I really can't blame the BOD, given their understanding and history, to impose restrictions. I see my "job" as helping the BOD understand the needs of the P/T shooters even as they try to balance those with the "traditional" type of members. And learn they have, even participating in many of the new events. We still have yet to have a BOD member try a 3Gun match, but every other match type one of them has tried, even if just to understand the basics. Show me any other club where that has happened.

Personally, I do not like the CCW restriction, but I have not addressed it with the BOD for a variety of reasons.

As for the restriction on "quick-draw" and movement, realize that is WAS a prohibition. I asked for variance, and was granted such, by the creation of a clearance procedure. I know some people are pissed about it, but at the time, it was the path to get it allowed. I think there are maybe a dozen people TOTAL who have requested such and maybe 10 or so have actually completed it. Yes, it costs $10 to get the flag, which I paid for and just get reimbursed. Yes it is inconvenient. However, if you have shot ANY form of organized P/T match and understand about the issues related to proper steel placement in a berm, it will seem almost stupid easy to you. I have driven out to the range 3 times and the people who asked did not show up, so now I only do it when I am going out anyway. Show up at a 3Gun match or a USPSA pistol match, I will probably be there, but I would still check first.

[rustycrusty]

Previous post of mine may have painted the BoD as villains- not my intention.

I see the club growing and changing for the good- I mean to speak strongly against the changes that I see detrimental to the club.

The BoD does seem a bit removed from these conversations- and decision making at the top could be more transparent simply due to inefficient communication methods. Email is great, the website is getting better. Both of those methods are communications from individual to BoD or opposite.

A forum like this for members to collectively talk about issues at CRC is needed. This would also be a great place for identifying the reckless shooters ruining it for us all. Creating a forum that the BoD can reference, and post on ,would be a large step towards addressing the communication void. It would build a more unified group among CRC members.

It is hard to have an idea of member desires as a whole without such a forum, as many of the members will keep their qualms or ideas to themselves rather than individually speak to the board. I am trying to do less of that, but I recognize that my previously unvoiced concern is not unique.

[USMC88-93]

.................... but there must be a better way of keeping the BoD from going all NYC on us...

I laughed out loud, that was funny.

. We still have yet to have a BOD member try a 3Gun match, but every other match type one of them has tried, even if just to understand the basics.

What about pressing the board, or a portion of its members to at least attend a portion of the Noveske multigun event to get a feel for it.

[MarkCO]

I will certainly invite them. I think they came out for Noveske in 2012, but not in 2013. What cracks me up about three gun is the response from people seeing it the first time, especially top level shooters. They have one of three responses typically. 1) I could never do that. 2) That looks dangerous. or 3) I want to do that!

I do read the discussions about this club, and other clubs, and I obviously participate on many levels in the P/T types of shooting. I agree that keeping the discussion going is beneficial, and I will do my best to convey summaries to the BOD as best I can.

For now, while it might taste bad, one of the things that is needed is for all members to self police. If you see a member doing something wrong, feel free to have a polite conversation. If you see someone with out a badge that is not part of a formal match, ask them to put on their badge. If either goes poorly, gain some distance, take a photo of the car with the plate and such and report it to Steve Fowler. I fully believe 95% of the members don't even need rules. Maybe 4% need some rules to keep their lack of common sense, understanding of principles in check and 1% need to have their memberships revoked. Education is key to moving the 95% to 99%, but 1% will just always be bad apples. Identify and remove is the best policy, and I think the BOD sees that.

My hope is that I can get someone to step forward as the MG match director in 2015 and then I might just try to run for the BOD myself.

[USMC88-93]

[MarkCO]

The signs are done and I have $1600 of steel sitting in the shop that needs to get set up. Who needs some workbond time worked off? I am thinking I will go out on Friday morning.