CRC Proposal for new range/ban of steel on HP range

[MarkCO]

If you are on SH, you probably saw this: http://crci.org/Portals/15/Content/F...20of%20the.pdf

As a result, I put together a draft proposal to construct a new range. If you like the idea, or want to offer help/suggestions, drop me a PM and when the collective likes the proposal I will add names and member numbers and run it up the flagpole. Can't promise anything, but at least it will re-start the conversation from a few years ago:

LR Steel Range Proposal
The CRC high power range has been utilized for persons who desire to shoot long range steel, however, some recent problems have occurred. This proposal seeks to:
1. Address the interests of the wide array of range members
2. Allow those who desire to shoot steel at CRC that opportunity
3. Minimize policing of the ranges and member conflicts
4. Minimize costs to CRC for maintenance of this range.
The proposal is to create a new range between East Range berm 1 and the Silhouette range. The firing line would face due North on the section line. Berms would be constructed at distances of 200 yards, 600 yards, 800 yards, 1000 yards and 1200 yards. The firing line will be uncovered and defined by signage and boxed in flattened earth approximately 20 yards N-S and 40 yards E-W. On the East edge of this area, a roof, a barricade and a doghouse will be constructed and utilized as shooting positions.
This range should be restricted to use by members with known or demonstrated ability only who provide and use their own AR500 steel. A lockbox will be constructed and only those with demonstrated or known skill will be provided the lock combination. When the box is closed, a “RANGE CLOSED” sign will be displayed. When the box is open, a “RANGE HOT” sign will be displayed. A bound book will be inside the box with sign-in and sign out entries. The only impact would be on the Silhouette range to place and collect steel, which should take no more than 10 minutes.
CRC members who have competed competently at CRC matches that require shooting beyond 300 yards or who can so demonstrate that competence, will be provided with the lockbox combination and be re required to sign a terms of use for this range. The combination will be changed annually, or if a person is no longer allowed to use this range.
Other than the construction of the berms, the members bringing this proposal will furnish the time, labor and material to construct the shooting line, lockbox and constructed shooting positions. We will also create a safety protocol and conditions of use agreement for CRC BOD approval. Further, it is anticipated that this range, once completed, will also have a monthly match.
We believe that a dedicated long range steel range is practical, will generate income for the club, and will solve some of the issues that have occurred by incompetent persons using steel on the High power range. Once this range is completed, the High Power range steel use allowance could be modified.

[J]

Hell, I would donate some steel to the silhouette range to be left out if they would extend it to at least 800m, preferably 1000m, and 1200m as you say would be a good bonus. 500m on normal size steel gets really boring quickly unless you are shooting on one of the monsoon windy afternoons we get out there. At 500m it is more fun for me to shoot my AR with a 1-8.5x with Mil-Surp ammo than it is for me to shoot my precision rigs with Schmidt's and handloads. I suppose some smaller steel targets could help with this, but I'm not sure if they would be approved to be put out permanently.

An additional range would be way cool too, help to have another option when matches are running that I'm not shooting in. Hopefully it would be popular enough to warrant a roof/awning in the foreseeable future.

The only thing I don't like... I'm not a huge fan of the idea that people have to get certified and justify a need to use parts of the range or use them in particular ways. I still need to get 'certified' to do action shooting on the berms. I've been shooting IDPA for quite some time now, am a certified IDPA RSO, have multiple NRA instructor credentials and nearly 3 decades of experience shooting. I'll do any certifications required if I have to. But for some people (read: me!) it is hard enough to get away from work to get checked out and approved when its only offered once in a while, and it is starting to feel awfully 'fuddy' and a bordering on California's CCW permit only if "you need it" system.

Rant off. CRC is still the best club in the state IMHO. I just get cranky from time to time. Thanks for what you do there Mark. It is appreciated, so don't take this the wrong way. I just think that we need to be more inclusive to all of our brother shooters. Why can't they shoot at a long range steel setup? I don't care if they are just adding lead minerals to the dirt. As long as it lands downrange away from shooters/spectators I'm a happy camper.

[MarkCO]

Rant off. CRC is still the best club in the state IMHO. I just get cranky from time to time. Thanks for what you do there Mark. It is appreciated, so don't take this the wrong way. I just think that we need to be more inclusive to all of our brother shooters. Why can't they shoot at a long range steel setup? I don't care if they are just adding lead minerals to the dirt. As long as it lands downrange away from shooters/spectators I'm a happy camper.

In theory, I agree with you. in theory, I agreed with the founding fathers...In bot cases, irresponsible A-Holes screw it up. I have learned that a restriction keeps out a few good people, but mostly the riff raff. If you knew half the stuff I have found people doing on the range, you would be aghast. Also the reason to have that range be steel only and use only your own steel. The NRA has data that shows bullet landing at angles of about 10 degrees or less and at reduced velocities, skip off the ground. So that has to be addressed. There is afterall, a road downrange.

That said, very open to suggestions.

[J]

I get that we have idiots, but if we get bounces off the ground at 10* (angle of incidence is equal to the angle of deflection) we aren't really any worse off than a high miss. The berms need to be made high enough that they are safe for shooting towards whether a miss is low or high. To me it seems this would be the same issue as low misses on the HP range or the silhouette range. Would they not?

Though I have to disagree with your postulation that a few idiots or a-holes can invalidate what was promised to us by our founding fathers. Range safety rules are another topic, and I'll gladly discuss those with an open mind. But number of a-holes will never change my agreement with rights promised to us as natural born US citizens. But I will concede that this topic has only a cursory relationship to our real discussion here.

Maybe I'm missing something, but can you expand/enumerate the reasons behind this statement you posted. I would love a steel only range, and am happy to provide my own, but I am not connecting the need for such a setup due to safety. For cost to the club to increase chances of approval, sure, but for safety I'm not certain I can connect the dots. Best thing I can come up with is to reduce cold range calls (needed there and at the silhouette range) for paper targets. Maybe that is it.

Also the reason to have that range be steel only and use only your own steel.

[MarkCO]

The morons don't have steel. If there is nothing out there to shoot at, they won't shoot at it (maybe).

[J]

Ah understood. I couldn't for the life of me determine how shooting at ones own steel would be inherently safer than shooting at provided steel (and perhaps the opposite given the quality of steel and mounting methods).

But you are proposing a barrier to entry, which I can logically process and follow.

Thanks for clarifying.

[J]

For the record, I'll support this new range however it comes about. I think it is a great idea. I just wanted to express my opinion on the stipulations surrounding it.

[DeusExMachina]

I guess I'm having trouble figuring out why steel is banned on the high power range, since it's not stated anywhere,

[RCCrawler]

In bot cases, irresponsible A-Holes screw it up. I have learned that a restriction keeps out a few good people, but mostly the riff raff.

I've never understood why places punish the good people by making them jump through hoops as opposed to just dealing with the problem causers and getting rid of them.

Screw up once get a warning, screw up again and revoke their membership.

[merl]

Probably because you rarely catch the folks in the act, just find the effects later. (but I don't have any details to know for sure)