Replacing Circuit Breakers

[th3w01f]

If you Amp draw's do not exceed 80% of rating it could be a "weak" breaker.. Most manufacturers state the breaker is designed to only work once. that doesn't mean they will only work once but they will get weak due to varying factors. that's how it was explained to me buy guys that rebuild breakers out at MillerCoors

Good info, I'd be surprised if these were less than 10 years old and it has tripped at least 20 times in the last two weeks.

[Great-Kazoo]

Good info, I'd be surprised if these were less than 10 years old and it has tripped at least 20 times in the last two weeks.

IF your tire went flat 3x would you keep fixing it? Same for the breakers, Replace with Square D. Then see what issues you're having. More then likely it's the end use item or wiring.

[th3w01f]

IF your tire went flat 3x would you keep fixing it? Same for the breakers, Replace with Square D. Then see what issues you're having. More then likely it's the end use item or wiring.

If you go back to my original post, my plan was to replace them before doing any troubleshooting. At least I now know how to check the current draw on a breaker.

I finally have an electrician coming out so I'm going to replace the entire panel and go from there. The only end use item I can think of is the opener and that's about 15 years old, so it's going too. Last night it was making a strange electrical humming sound for no reason. The breaker didn't trip but no idea why the opener was making such a loud noise when it hadn't been used in about 2 hours.

[rondog]

Breakers are simply mechanical devices, and mechanical devices fail. Nothing lasts forever. Replacing questionable breakers is cheap insurance, but make damn sure you get the RIGHT ones for replacements! Different manufacturers and panels use their own proprietary breakers/parts, incompatibility is the rule.

[brutal]

This is NOT recommended when you have 240V appliances on those circuits (like well pumps)... because it would pop one leg of the 240V, but the other leg would still be hot. The 2 are joined specifically drop both sides of the 240V. if the circuits serve nothing but 120V, then they shouldn't be joined.

In my case, the breakers are not "joined," and I didn't mean to imply anyone should ever split a dual pole breaker. What I'm talking about is two single pole 120V breakers built in a single housing that heat soak and cause unnecessary trips. I believe they call these tandems or "cheaters."

[SideShow Bob]

In my case, the breakers are not "joined," and I didn't mean to imply anyone should ever split a dual pole breaker. What I'm talking about is two single pole 120V breakers built in a single housing that heat soak and cause unnecessary trips. I believe they call these tandems or "cheaters."

Those are half breakers. They make 2 circuits off the same phase of that slot. The slots are phased A, B, A, B.............. Starting from the top slot.

To the OP, the wiring to that bottom breaker is way undersized for the rating on the breaker, ( 100 A ? It is too faded to read from the picture ), especially if it is of any length, if I recall you said approximately 100 feet.
Not only do you need to replace the breakers, you need to upsize the wire size using the de-rating for the distance to the equipment.

[th3w01f]

New 50A breaker installed in place of the old 100A, this is actually an old Siemens panel. Total load of all breakers in the sub panel is 50A and highest measured while running everything including opening and closing the garage while turning on the TV is ~7A.

A Phase input wire connector was loose so I tightened that.

Attachment 63132

To the OP, the wiring to that bottom breaker is way undersized for the rating on the breaker, ( 100 A ? It is too faded to read from the picture ), especially if it is of any length, if I recall you said approximately 100 feet. Not only do you need to replace the breakers, you need to upsize the wire size using the de-rating for the distance to the equipment.

The wire run is probably 60 - 100', what gauge would be required to support the 50A? I've been searching but I don't understand the answers at this point. It the wire looks to be 6 - 8 gauge but that's just a guess.

[TheSparkens]

Bob I don't mean to be a jerk but you are incorrect and if you would like I will put a 200 dollar bill down on each of the things I am going to say and will directly donate your money to the OP.
Starting from the top. 60 Amp 2 pole breaker A Phase , B Phase, 240 V Next one down 15-15 twin each circuit of this Siemens ITE twin is A Phase 115V - A Phase 115V because it connects to the A phase buss, Next one down is a 20-20 twin each circuit of this breaker is B Phase 115 V - B Phase 115 V because it is attached to the B phase , the next breaker down is a single pole 20 full size breaker and is on the A phase. This has so many code violations that it should be shut down. The number one reason your breakers are failing is corrosion from water damage, you can see this by the white water marks on the breakers in the first pick. Bob if this was a GE load center GE calls there breakers like this " thins " and the Buss arrangement is set up different. If a breaker is sized properly 80% of the full load of the nameplate rating of the appliance and if it is a continues motor load you need to add 125% to that calculation and the wire is sized properly for voltage drop 2*K*I*L / CM The breaker will not over heat.

[brutal]

Bob I don't mean to be a jerk but you are incorrect and if you would like I will put a 200 dollar bill down on each of the things I am going to say and will directly donate your money to the OP.
Starting from the top. 60 Amp 2 pole breaker A Phase , B Phase, 240 V Next one down 15-15 twin each circuit of this Siemens ITE twin is A Phase 115V - A Phase 115V because it connects to the A phase buss, Next one down is a 20-20 twin each circuit of this breaker is B Phase 115 V - B Phase 115 V because it is attached to the B phase , the next breaker down is a single pole 20 full size breaker and is on the A phase. This has so many code violations that it should be shut down. The number one reason your breakers are failing is corrosion from water damage, you can see this by the white water marks on the breakers in the first pick. Bob if this was a GE load center GE calls there breakers like this " thins " and the Buss arrangement is set up different. If a breaker is sized properly 80% of the full load of the nameplate rating of the appliance and if it is a continues motor load you need to add 125% to that calculation and the wire is sized properly for voltage drop 2*K*I*L / CM The breaker will not over heat.

Calm down everyone. MY post/picture was only an example I found online of the cheater breakers I replaced in my RV, nothing really related to the OP, just color commentary about what can happen to breakers to cause them to trip - degradation, etc.

[TheSparkens]

That looks to be # 10 Copper and should be # 4 Aluminum or # 6 Copper at 100' length. Maximum over current protection for a number 10 wire is 30 Amps period. QUOTE=th3w01f;1944735]New 50A breaker installed in place of the old 100A, this is actually an old Siemens panel. Total load of all breakers in the sub panel is 50A and highest measured while running everything including opening and closing the garage while turning on the TV is ~7A.

A Phase input wire connector was loose so I tightened that.

Attachment 63132



The wire run is probably 60 - 100', what gauge would be required to support the 50A? I've been searching but I don't understand the answers at this point. It the wire looks to be 6 - 8 gauge but that's just a guess.[/QUOTE]