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One of my friends in the Air Force said that it is not uncommon for guys to confiscate AK's, send them to the armorer for clean up (and to tighten the head space), then use the AK's while out there, then just leave them for the next batch of new troops. I feel kind of stupid verbalizing this, but I HAVE seen more than a few pictures of troops carrying around nice AK's.
"There are no finger prints under water."
I don't mean to rag on your friend...but that's highly unlikely. I can tell you from having been an Air Force Red Hat (Combat Arms Instructor, Armorer, etc...) that they (the armorers) will almost certainly not "clean up and tighten the headspace" and then return the rifle to a troop. Not only do AF regs prohibit using non-issue weapons generally, but most Red Hats wouldn't have a clue how to "tighten the headspace" on an AK. Not only would they almost certainly not know how to do that, unless they stumbled across the headspace gauges they wouldn't have those, either.Originally Posted by Sturtle
My son (an Air Force JTAC) has captured/picked up several enemy weapons. With the exception of one (an AK which is hanging over the shop entrace at the 9th Air Support Operations Group at Ft Hood, TX) he was required to immediately surrender the guns to security forces personnel for disposal.
Here are a couple of photos. It's one thing to capture the gun and get a few minutes for a photo op...it's another to actually "carry" it in place of your M4/M16:
Fallujah, 11/04
The captured AK (looks a lot like a Yugo!) now residing at the 9th ASOS
Kyle w/said captured AK before turning it in (post Battle of Fallujah...he hadn't slept for about 72 hrs)
Last edited by Bailey Guns; 10-21-2009 at 12:30. Reason: add photos
What the rules say is supposed to happen, and what actually happens are two different things though.
"There are no finger prints under water."
I served one tour in Desert Shield/Storm and two tours in OIF. NOBODY in the US military is carrying AKs over there. Due to the job I did in OIF, we confiscated hundreds of thousands of munitions and weapons in Iraq. Cache identification and confiscation and SAM buy-back programs were a huge part of our mission. We kept samples of various types of firearms and hand-held weapons, and we used them for training new agents and our SFS security teams on the various weapons being used over there. EOD did this also when it came to the plethora of IED's etc being used over there. Nobody was carrying any of that junk.
The combat arms guys (CATM) I was with over there weren't trained on the M2, much less an AK. There is no way that they are rebuilding AK's for use. I have seen what CATM had available at 4 locations in Iraq for maintaining firearms and I can tell you they didn't have the right tools, and almost all wouldn't know how to fix the headspacing on an AK. I had to rebuild 2 M2s and fix one non functioning M249 while over there because the CATM guys didn't have the tools, parts, or training to do it. Thank god we had Army and KBR contractors over there with the parts and know-how.
I will say, at the beginning of the war, there was a real problem getting M4's to some of the AF troops. The AF receives weapons after all three other branches. It caused some problems for the few career fields that acutually go off base. But going off into a combat zone with a weapon that would identify you as something other than a US combatant would be a really bad idea.
Bailey, it might be a Tabuk. The Iraqis and Iranians were very good at reverse engineering guns. I found some very interesting stuff over there.
Funniest thing I have read on this forum in ages.
You know I like my coffee sweet in the morning
and I'm crazy about my tea at night
OK...sure.
Despite the obvious issues regarding the logistics of ammo, magazines, parts, repairs...all of which are not available to the average AF guy for supporting carry of a captured AK, there's also the issue of Article 15s or other UCMJ punishment for violation of AF Regs.
Not to mention no NCO or officer in their right mind is going to allow the average AF person to knowingly violate numerous AF Regs and carry captured enemy weapons of dubious quality.
It's might be a romantic notion, and it might make for good war stories, to tell people, "Oh, yeah. We picked up battlefield AKs and carried them in combat because our M4s sucked." But, I'm telling you...it doesn't happen on a widespread basis or even as a matter of routine for the average AF person.
Can some get away with it in the heat of an engagement? Sure. But other than that, I'll still maintain with virtual certainty it's not something that's widespread and happens often.
Ditto what SA Friday said...
I believe it is a Tabuk, SA. I have a closeup of the markings somewhere and I believe that's what it was. Good call.
Yeah...when I went through CATM training I must've missed the classes on AK maintenance.
Believe me, I feel dumb repeating it, me not being in the services at all....
EDIT: I'd like to bring up one other issue as well. Any time I watch a modern war movie, I notice that the bad guys always have the most beautifully finished AK's ever. I always think, "yeah right, I've seen the shit they use over there, and it doesn't look like that." I've seen lots and lots of pictures of interesting weapons that people have found over there, and it is always some chopped up rifle action with a towel wrapped around it or something. For the record, I've seen many more pictures of junk guns pieced together than of troops carrying AK's.
"There are no finger prints under water."
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