Deer hunting with a .223

[buffalobo]

Well, I have come to the conclusion that defending the .223 for deer hunting is pretty much a lost cause. So far nobody has answered my original question. Where are the facts? Who hunted deer with a .223, took an ethical shot, and watched the deer jump up and run off with a .223 bullet in it. Deer is deer in Texas or Colorado or Maine or New York and they will fall to a .223 just as sure as a .243. I say that as with any firearm the distance, placement, the proper bullet, ethics, and accepting responsibility are all key factors in making a humane shot - but for some reason the majority will acquiesce to the makers of the laws no matter how unreasonable or how old, or how lacking in facts the law is. And, they will give away rights and freedoms rather than argue because there is the assumption that studies and data are foolproof, if, and that is a BIG IF, they were even considered. And therein is the problem. People will just go with the flow until we no longer have any freedoms left. To my knowledge nobody with reason and ethics can leave the camp and engage a deer and NOT know that they are incapable of making the shot. The same shame would apply to a .243, 308., 30-06, or 338. Don't take the shot if you can't be sure of making it. Because there are people who have no ethics, because there are outlaws, because there are just plain stupid people in the woods is not a reason to outlaw a gun or a caliber which science says is more than adequate. The End.

An easy phone call to folks who get paid to talk to you is all it takes to get the info you're asking for. Yet you have spent couple days jousting with us and now want to lecture us, take us to task for being cowards?

[sniper7]

Well, I have come to the conclusion that defending the .223 for deer hunting is pretty much a lost cause. So far nobody has answered my original question. Where are the facts? Who hunted deer with a .223, took an ethical shot, and watched the deer jump up and run off with a .223 bullet in it. Deer is deer in Texas or Colorado or Maine or New York and they will fall to a .223 just as sure as a .243. I say that as with any firearm the distance, placement, the proper bullet, ethics, and accepting responsibility are all key factors in making a humane shot - but for some reason the majority will acquiesce to the makers of the laws no matter how unreasonable or how old, or how lacking in facts the law is. And, they will give away rights and freedoms rather than argue because there is the assumption that studies and data are foolproof, if, and that is a BIG IF, they were even considered. And therein is the problem. People will just go with the flow until we no longer have any freedoms left. To my knowledge nobody with reason and ethics can leave the camp and engage a deer and NOT know that they are incapable of making the shot. The same shame would apply to a .243, 308., 30-06, or 338. Don't take the shot if you can't be sure of making it. Because there are people who have no ethics, because there are outlaws, because there are just plain stupid people in the woods is not a reason to outlaw a gun or a caliber which science says is more than adequate. The End.

First it is the regulations that dictate caliber size. That is colorado law. If you don’t own anything bigger than a .223 then this gives you justification to go buy a new rifle.

Yes deer can easily be killed by a .223. But Colorado likes to generalize what is big game vs small game. Even turkey is considered big game for most purposes other that you can hunt them with a .22 rifle in the fall if desired.

They recently even upped the required size for muzzleloaders in big game. But still no scopes on a muzzleloader.

But these are the regulations you moved into. Factual data won’t come into play for the .223 and whining about it on a gun forum won’t change the minds of those running the DOW especially now they have been infiltrated by the parks system.
BTW deer are quite a bit larger here in Colorado (not everything is bigger in Texas....just go ask Alaska!), we also have much more public use lands vs the high fence and leased lands of Texas. Due to that they wanted a larger caliber to possibly ensure greater probability of a lethal shot. Now we all know a 87 grain .243 vs a 75 grain .223 isn’t much difference but that is the line they drew and Personally I’m fine with that.
So go get ya a new rifle and enjoy all the public lands with some of the best and biggest big game the lower 48 has to offer.

[eddiememphis]

... turkey is considered big game for most purposes other that you can hunt them with a .22 rifle in the fall if desired.

That too, has restrictions. Minimum of 17 grain bullet carrying 110 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards. This rules out most .22 LR rounds. Number one reason I am looking for a .22 WMR lever action.

[Irving]

That too, has restrictions. Minimum of 17 grain bullet carrying 110 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards. This rules out most .22 LR rounds. Number one reason I am looking for a .22 WMR lever action.

Where are you seeing that? I've looked and asked CPW and they just said I could hunt fall Turkey with whatever I had with me, which I thought was a weird answer.

[Gman]

Fight the man.

[spqrzilla]

Fight the man.

Represent

[Irving]

I'm not sure what kind of responses you're expecting here. First, I'm not surprised that people aren't forming a line to talk about bad shots on animals.

Second, if it weren't for the strict hunting regulations we have now, we wouldn't even have animals to hunt. Let's not forget that unregulated hunting is what drove most of our megafauna to the brink of extinction in the first place.

[marineimaging]

I don't think I am whining or lecturing, and I probably should have not said Texas because I don't hold to that garbage that everything is bigger in Texas. I also have mule deer, elk, and moose in my back yard so I know the difference in size and bulk. Yes, they are bigger. I also lived in Alaska and other states and upon moving here (again, I lived in the mountains and front range for 10 years in the 80's) I was surprised to find the prohibition against .223 for at least white tail. The fact is I joined an AR-15/Colorado forum which typically means .223/5.56 caliber uses in Colorado and thought, hey, I'll ask here under the "HUNTING" forum to see if anybody knows why Colorado has chosen to reject the .223 caliber for hunting deer. I have tried to offer at least half a dozen reasons we should force the issue of permitting at least white tail deer harvesting with .223 but like I said, it is pretty much a lost cause.

[sniper7]

I don't think I am whining or lecturing, and I probably should have not said Texas because I don't hold to that garbage that everything is bigger in Texas. I also have mule deer, elk, and moose in my back yard so I know the difference in size and bulk. Yes, they are bigger. I also lived in Alaska and other states and upon moving here (again, I lived in the mountains and front range for 10 years in the 80's) I was surprised to find the prohibition against .223 for at least white tail. The fact is I joined an AR-15/Colorado forum which typically means .223/5.56 caliber uses in Colorado and thought, hey, I'll ask here under the "HUNTING" forum to see if anybody knows why Colorado has chosen to reject the .223 caliber for hunting deer. I have tried to offer at least half a dozen reasons we should force the issue of permitting at least white tail deer harvesting with .223 but like I said, it is pretty much a lost cause.

Probably because you will find most people really don’t care. I hunt whitetail in a minimum of 2 states a year and have never used a .223 and I don’t care. I just shot my late season colorado Buck with a .300 win mag at 352 yards. A .223 might be questionable at that range. So yes, it is a lost cause because if I don’t care, I guarantee a massive majority don’t care.

[spqrzilla]

I also lived in Alaska and other states and upon moving here (again, I lived in the mountains and front range for 10 years in the 80's) I was surprised to find the prohibition against .223 for at least white tail.

Again, its not about .223. .223 Remington is NOT specifically prohibited. All rifle calibers less than .243/6mm are. As well as any ammunition with less than the required muzzle energy or bullet weight. And as TFOGGER mentioned, the regulation reflected a belief at the time about bullet construction.

Colorado regulations do not distinguish between mule deer and whitetail deer except for a handful of tags on the plains.

Wyoming only allowed .223 Remington for antelope a couple of years ago and I believe just this year allowed it for deer, lion and grey wolf for the first time. They still require larger caliber for elk, bear etc.