The Circle Approach to surviving

[theGinsue]

What do you guys think of just creating space where ever you are? If you shoot at people who come within 500 yards of where you are, how long will it take for people to just stay away?

I'd rather use distance and stealth than trying to whack every nutjob that came trying for me.

Where I'm at right now is a tight fitting residential area (I have a whopping 6k sq ft lot). With so many homes for others to hide in/around, my ability to watch around me is limited. PLUS, bullets will go through my walls. If the bad guys (BG's) want to get to me all they have to do is randomly shoot into my home. Eventually they'll get me. Even if they didn't take that approach, as Troublco said ""You've got to sleep some time".

I still say that in longer term scenarios, my best choice is distance and dissappear.

[AP-4Guy]

I agree, although I didn't say it in my first post, that staying in the city is not a long-term solution. Quite the contrary!! I think the city would become untenable in fairly short order, probably 1-2 weeks max without food, even sooner without water. So, we're on the right track here.

What I was trying to get across is that in order to survive, even in the mountains or plains, you're going to need food and water. Lots of it. We each have the ability to start accumulating food and a way to get water NOW, not wait for TS to HTF and then you're all of a sudden on the street with your rifle and backpack. Come up with a plan!! And you'll need to be in a place that is defensible if it comes to that. Do I think it is smart to shoot at people just because they wander to within 500 yards of your stuff? No, not unless it's your property or you have unmistakeable markers out showing people where NOT to go. As was pointed out, this also attracts attention, and will surely invite harsh retaliation. I think a more sound plan is in order here.

I believe most people on the front range, when faced with a crises, will head to the mountains. You know how bad the mountains get on ski weekends, so just imagine if there is a crises brewing in Denver. Yes, initially those people will be confined to the roads and major highways, but it will not be long until the hills will literally be crawling with people. Just something to think about.

[Irving]

In a real situation where people are fending for themselves, the only way to determine whose property something is by force.

I like the rings of preparation idea by the way. Great method to keep focused. I've camped all of two times in my life and generally have no idea what I'm doing so I grossly over pack and bring all kinds of random shit that I never end up needing. Like I'll bring shoelaces or something, with no real purpose in mind, just "in case." Having a plan, to make your plan, helps keep things simple and prevents you from pushing around a shopping cart full of the contents of your junk drawer.

[AP-4Guy]

Stuart,

Not that I don't think this may be necessary under certain circumstances. But I am just wondering - will this be your property you are defending, or are you just planning on taking someone else's?? And what exactly is the threat these people are presenting to you?

This sounds like an extension of the "I have a gun, therefore I can get what I need" approach. I'm really not criticizing you, but as you progress I think you will understand how shortsighted and unrealistic this is. Again, this is exactly the situation we can easily avoid with a little forethought and preparation.

I can relate to the shoelaces syndrome! It's very easy to do. One thing I found helpful was the "List of Lists" on http://www.survivalblog.com

[Irving]

That isn't my "plan" it was just something I thought of. Personally, I think most of the conversation in these threads is misdirected as realistically, people will only have to survive on their own for so long (a few months) before either most everyone else is dead or gone.

Let's say there was a nuclear strike in Denver. You'd just have to survive long enough to make it to the next state where there is room for you to reintegrate into society. If there were a nuclear strike in several major cities, then you'd need to be prepared to live long enough to get to the next country. Even though people may have to fend for themselves, doesn't mean that people aren't going to join together in groups. There will certainly be risk of people just out looting or preying on the weak, but that won't be the majority of people.

Personally, I'm kind of surprised at how narrow the discussion has been so far. If 50% of the US is turned into a nuclear wasteland, I'm not going to try and drag my family to the most rugged part of Yellowstone to try and play "My Side of the Mountain" and hope other refugees leave us alone and our teeth don't fall out from radiation. We'll go up to Canada or down to Mexico where we can reintegrate into another society. Sure, it wouldn't be my beloved America, but it would be better than a nuclear waste land.

[SA Friday]

Small rural farming/ranching communities that have fortified themselves from nomadic raiders are the ones that will survive. Towns like this with a larger older population that remember skills like gardening, canning, dehydrating, and long term food storage without electricity will thrive the best. The town will also need to have a steady supply of natural clean water, preferrably above ground, but there are some advantages to wells also.

Large cities will eventually degrade to urban killing battlefields without a steady influx of supplies. Many will go into the mountains and die trying. After 6 months, is suspect 4/5th of the population would die from one thing or another. The survivors would rise to the top like cream in a bucket pretty fast.

The initial impact on the wild game would be severe, but after about 25 years, I suspect with the majority of people having died off, wild game and feral livestock will be everywhere, and dangerous. Hawaii saw this phenomanon after many heards of bovine went wild on of of their islands. There was hunting for feral bovine on the island at one time, and it was pretty dangerous stuff. We see it mostly here in the states with hogs, but imagine feral bovine going back to a wild state with the amounts we have in this country. Increase in large predatory animals population will occur to I suspect with the huge decrease in territory pressure. So if you can survive the first 10-15 years, I suspect you would see an increase in potential hunting.

The key to getting past the hard years will be small community coops with lots of agriculture and ranching to support the food stocks, quality food preservation techniques without the use of electricity, and enough security to keep from losing what you have worked so hard to make.

Seed stocks, Bell jar canning and the supplies and experience to do it without wasting food, knowing how to dig and made root cellars and undergound cold storage facilities, metal screen dehydrating techniques are just some of the things I've started investigating and learning. Growing grains, grinding grains, and cooking breads from scratch will also be vital. When's the last time you made bread from scratch (in an oven, without one of those fancy bread makers)? Smoking, dehydrating, and jarring meats are going to be vital skills too.

[jerrymrc]

Small rural farming/ranching communities that have fortified themselves from nomadic raiders are the ones that will survive. Towns like this with a larger older population that remember skills like gardening, canning, dehydrating, and long term food storage without electricity will thrive the best. The town will also need to have a steady supply of natural clean water, preferrably above ground, but there are some advantages to wells also.

Large cities will eventually degrade to urban killing battlefields without a steady influx of supplies. Many will go into the mountains and die trying. After 6 months, is suspect 4/5th of the population would die from one thing or another. The survivors would rise to the top like cream in a bucket pretty fast.

The initial impact on the wild game would be severe, but after about 25 years, I suspect with the majority of people having died off, wild game and feral livestock will be everywhere, and dangerous. Hawaii saw this phenomanon after many heards of bovine went wild on of of their islands. There was hunting for feral bovine on the island at one time, and it was pretty dangerous stuff. We see it mostly here in the states with hogs, but imagine feral bovine going back to a wild state with the amounts we have in this country. Increase in large predatory animals population will occur to I suspect with the huge decrease in territory pressure. So if you can survive the first 10-15 years, I suspect you would see an increase in potential hunting.

The key to getting past the hard years will be small community coops with lots of agriculture and ranching to support the food stocks, quality food preservation techniques without the use of electricity, and enough security to keep from losing what you have worked so hard to make.

Seed stocks, Bell jar canning and the supplies and experience to do it without wasting food, knowing how to dig and made root cellars and undergound cold storage facilities, metal screen dehydrating techniques are just some of the things I've started investigating and learning. Growing grains, grinding grains, and cooking breads from scratch will also be vital. When's the last time you made bread from scratch (in an oven, without one of those fancy bread makers)? Smoking, dehydrating, and jarring meats are going to be vital skills too.

Some of my favorite topics above.

[SA Friday]

Jerry, I'm going to start another thread about jarring food and specifically what pressure cooker will survive many ears of use. I would love to hear your inputs on the matter.