The Circle Approach to surviving

[Irving]

That isn't my "plan" it was just something I thought of. Personally, I think most of the conversation in these threads is misdirected as realistically, people will only have to survive on their own for so long (a few months) before either most everyone else is dead or gone.

Let's say there was a nuclear strike in Denver. You'd just have to survive long enough to make it to the next state where there is room for you to reintegrate into society. If there were a nuclear strike in several major cities, then you'd need to be prepared to live long enough to get to the next country. Even though people may have to fend for themselves, doesn't mean that people aren't going to join together in groups. There will certainly be risk of people just out looting or preying on the weak, but that won't be the majority of people.

Personally, I'm kind of surprised at how narrow the discussion has been so far. If 50% of the US is turned into a nuclear wasteland, I'm not going to try and drag my family to the most rugged part of Yellowstone to try and play "My Side of the Mountain" and hope other refugees leave us alone and our teeth don't fall out from radiation. We'll go up to Canada or down to Mexico where we can reintegrate into another society. Sure, it wouldn't be my beloved America, but it would be better than a nuclear waste land.

[SA Friday]

Small rural farming/ranching communities that have fortified themselves from nomadic raiders are the ones that will survive. Towns like this with a larger older population that remember skills like gardening, canning, dehydrating, and long term food storage without electricity will thrive the best. The town will also need to have a steady supply of natural clean water, preferrably above ground, but there are some advantages to wells also.

Large cities will eventually degrade to urban killing battlefields without a steady influx of supplies. Many will go into the mountains and die trying. After 6 months, is suspect 4/5th of the population would die from one thing or another. The survivors would rise to the top like cream in a bucket pretty fast.

The initial impact on the wild game would be severe, but after about 25 years, I suspect with the majority of people having died off, wild game and feral livestock will be everywhere, and dangerous. Hawaii saw this phenomanon after many heards of bovine went wild on of of their islands. There was hunting for feral bovine on the island at one time, and it was pretty dangerous stuff. We see it mostly here in the states with hogs, but imagine feral bovine going back to a wild state with the amounts we have in this country. Increase in large predatory animals population will occur to I suspect with the huge decrease in territory pressure. So if you can survive the first 10-15 years, I suspect you would see an increase in potential hunting.

The key to getting past the hard years will be small community coops with lots of agriculture and ranching to support the food stocks, quality food preservation techniques without the use of electricity, and enough security to keep from losing what you have worked so hard to make.

Seed stocks, Bell jar canning and the supplies and experience to do it without wasting food, knowing how to dig and made root cellars and undergound cold storage facilities, metal screen dehydrating techniques are just some of the things I've started investigating and learning. Growing grains, grinding grains, and cooking breads from scratch will also be vital. When's the last time you made bread from scratch (in an oven, without one of those fancy bread makers)? Smoking, dehydrating, and jarring meats are going to be vital skills too.

[jerrymrc]

Small rural farming/ranching communities that have fortified themselves from nomadic raiders are the ones that will survive. Towns like this with a larger older population that remember skills like gardening, canning, dehydrating, and long term food storage without electricity will thrive the best. The town will also need to have a steady supply of natural clean water, preferrably above ground, but there are some advantages to wells also.

Large cities will eventually degrade to urban killing battlefields without a steady influx of supplies. Many will go into the mountains and die trying. After 6 months, is suspect 4/5th of the population would die from one thing or another. The survivors would rise to the top like cream in a bucket pretty fast.

The initial impact on the wild game would be severe, but after about 25 years, I suspect with the majority of people having died off, wild game and feral livestock will be everywhere, and dangerous. Hawaii saw this phenomanon after many heards of bovine went wild on of of their islands. There was hunting for feral bovine on the island at one time, and it was pretty dangerous stuff. We see it mostly here in the states with hogs, but imagine feral bovine going back to a wild state with the amounts we have in this country. Increase in large predatory animals population will occur to I suspect with the huge decrease in territory pressure. So if you can survive the first 10-15 years, I suspect you would see an increase in potential hunting.

The key to getting past the hard years will be small community coops with lots of agriculture and ranching to support the food stocks, quality food preservation techniques without the use of electricity, and enough security to keep from losing what you have worked so hard to make.

Seed stocks, Bell jar canning and the supplies and experience to do it without wasting food, knowing how to dig and made root cellars and undergound cold storage facilities, metal screen dehydrating techniques are just some of the things I've started investigating and learning. Growing grains, grinding grains, and cooking breads from scratch will also be vital. When's the last time you made bread from scratch (in an oven, without one of those fancy bread makers)? Smoking, dehydrating, and jarring meats are going to be vital skills too.

Some of my favorite topics above.

[SA Friday]

Jerry, I'm going to start another thread about jarring food and specifically what pressure cooker will survive many ears of use. I would love to hear your inputs on the matter.

[AP-4Guy]

Please do! My wife and I started a garden for the first time last year. We canned the little that was left, but we ate most everything because the garden is unfortunately not that big. Hoping to expand it this year.

We also bought a pressure cooker (great if THSHTF because cook times are SO much shorter) and want to look into pressure canning. Baking bread from scratch is high on the list of things to learn. It's amazing how much work we've taken out of our daily lives and how spoiled we are in today's society.

[Irving]

I don't want to post this in SA's jarring thread, but if you are making bread from scratch, aren't you looking at using something like a dutch oven? I haven't seen anyone mention a Dutch Oven yet.

[BigBear]

You can use the cans from jarring for making bread and stuff. Yes, they'll be small, but it's saving space and weight from packing a dutch oven. Although, apple pie from a dutch oven is DELICIOUS!!!

My Smartaleck contribution.... "I'm joinig the Jeffery Donner party when the SHTF, never have to worry about food!" HAHAHA.

[AP-4Guy]

We'll have to check you for 'the twitch" at the next meeting then

[SA Friday]

I don't want to post this in SA's jarring thread, but if you are making bread from scratch, aren't you looking at using something like a dutch oven? I haven't seen anyone mention a Dutch Oven yet.

No dutch oven required at all. I've learned to make bread from scratch over the last six months. I posted about it in Jerry's food thread.

[Irving]

Yeah, but are you going to have an oven available if the power is out or the gas is off? That's what I mean.