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  1. #1
    mangyhyena
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    Default Alternative energy

    A lot of people preparing for serious problems down the line tend to lean toward the more primitive ways of doing things, like lighting your home, traveling, growing food, ect... Little House On The Prairie, in other words.

    I do not hold with that view. Yes, it is important to know how to do things the old fashioned way. However, we get things done today much more efficiently, over all. We can get more work done in a day than they could have dreamed of doing a hundred years ago. They worked harder and got less done back then.

    The old ways seem to hark back to a simpler way of life, and so it does. You grow your food and if you fail, you starve. You put in the work to get firewood to heat your home or you freeze. If you get hurt and can't get the work done, you suffer. See, simple.

    Today, we have electricity and petroleum fuel. Our life is much, much easier because of the access we have to power. We can cook our food without hours of prep time spent getting a wood stove hot. We can literally travel across the whole country in a vehicle in under a week rather than months with horses. We can hold thousands of books in an electronic reader rather than stored on shelves holding paperback or hardbound books, meaning we can take our survival library with us should we bug out. We can light our homes with the flick of a switch rather than rely on lanterns. We can use power tools to build things we need quickly rather than spending many times the effort and time required for hand tools. We can communicate in real time with someone thousands of miles away via internet, phone, and HAM radios.

    We should strive hard to make sure we can make our own power if the systems we rely upon fail, in my opinion. We have options. We should be exploring them. At the very least, we should be investing in deep cycle batteries to make battery banks for our homes right now. You can plug them in to charge them while the grid is up and if the power goes out, you've got another day or two of electricity while you wait for the power company to begin providing again. Also, if you've already got a battery bank you will be ready to capture electricity as you begin purchasing energy production equipment a little at a time. Over time, you should be able to go off the grid if you keep at it.

    Solar panels and windmills are an option. I'm not talking about spending huge amounts of money to power everything in your home. Just enough to charge a modest battery bank or recharge small, portable electronics. But solar and wind are not ideal. If the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine, no power for you. And I've found no way to turn wind and solar into fuels to run your vehicle, at least at the home user level which is what we're concerned with, here. I'm not saying to forget about setting them up, just that they have their downsides. I would not rely completely on them. Instead, I would use them in combination with other energy production technologies.

    In my opinion, wood gasification is ideal for preparedness. Wood gas can be captured and stored at the home producer level. Wood gas can run an internal combustion engine, which would allow you to drive a vehicle and/or run a generator if the power goes out or gasoline/diesel is unavailable for an extended period of time. This means the ability to run your vehicles and power your home/recharge your battery bank. All from wood, something we can get a lot of in CO.

    Another option to take a serious look at is the thermal electric generators (TEG's or Peltier generators) on the market and for sale right now. They tend to run a bit cheaper than solar and they can operate with just about any sufficient heat source, including fire. This means you can make electricity at night as well. Another thing that might be possible with TEG's is using a Fresnel lens to provide the heat source during sunny days. (Fresnel lens is a giant magnifying glass) Fresnel lenses are pretty cheap to purchase. You can even get them for free out of old big screen TV's that are free on craigslist. You have to haul the TV away, but you save a few hundred dollars on a Fresnel lens by doing so for the previous owner. If you are running a wood gasifier, you can put the TEG on it and produce electricity while you produce and capture wood gas for later use in a vehicle or generator.

    For people who raise livestock, methane is another fuel worth checking into. Methane can be captured and stored for later use. Methane can run engines as well. If you can make methane, you can drive and power your home.

    Anyway, do a little research and consider preparing to make your own energy should the systems collapse around us. It will be important during a time like that. You'll be glad you did if shtf or teotwawki strikes, or even if it doesn't.

  2. #2
    mangyhyena
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    Forgot something. You can also purchase stationary bikes to produce electricity for recharging batteries via pedal power. Not real practical for powering your home, but enough to recharge small electronics, like laptops, cell phones, video players, radios, and such. You could charge deep cycle batteries with them and use an inverter for low drain items, like HAM radios for communication.

    Also, those solar yard lights are pretty handy for a few reasons.
    1. They can provide light at night, obviously.
    2. They recharge AA batteries. You can remove those batteries in the evening and use them to run other things, like your cell phones and such with the right adapters and conversion units.
    3. They are fairly inexpensive, considering they are also a battery recharger. Having lots of them means if one breaks down, the others should keep working. Redundancy.

    Lastly, you should figure out a way to get your vehicle to recharge your deep cycle batteries as a backup way to recharge them. If you make wood gas and you run the vehicle on wood gas, it would make sense to bring a few deep cycle batteries with you when you drive and recharge them on the fly.

  3. #3
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    All great points, thank you for the post. I've been interested in the wood gasification for some time know. Quite viable for us rural mountain folk. I need to brush up on my fabrication skills a bit.

    I also like the the idea of horse/livestock/dog teadmills to charge batteries.
    http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...t=20019&page=3

  4. #4
    mangyhyena
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beprepared View Post
    All great points, thank you for the post. I've been interested in the wood gasification for some time know. Quite viable for us rural mountain folk. I need to brush up on my fabrication skills a bit.

    I also like the the idea of horse/livestock/dog teadmills to charge batteries.
    http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...t=20019&page=3

    I haven't seen a treadmill that charges batteries for sale. I'll have to do a search for it. I like that idea a lot. Would be nice to get some use out of my dogs for a change. Food in and energy out instead of the usual crap I get from those mutts.
    Also, I've had this crazy idea to make a long treadmill, put it on an incline, then have the family take turns riding it down. If I had enough people and pets I could keep it going for hours without anyone getting overly tired. Would keep the kids busy (Out of my hair!) charging the batteries with enough energy to run their nightly video/gaming entertainment. Don't know how that would work out, but it seems possible.

    For the wood gasifier, you might contract a local welder. Bet you could find a few that are out of work and who wouldn't mind doing some welding for cash. There are a multitude of DIY plans for them online. The more current plans are more efficient than the earlier models, but any of them will get you a working unit. Also, look up wood gas storage. It's possible to store the gas in pressurized cylinders via compressor for later use, like driving or running a generator when solar panels or windmills aren't working up to par due to weather conditions.

  5. #5
    Machine Gunner Hoosier's Avatar
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    You might consider a Stirling engine for creating power. DEKA has one but I don't know if it's available yet: http://www.dekaresearch.com/stirling.shtml They convert any heat into rotational energy using a closed-loop internal expansion system. They need a hot source and a cool source to work efficiently... if you had a wood powered fireplace for heat/light, the exhaust gas just up the chimney could power a Stirling engine. Kamens is designed to be used in the 3rd world, powered by cow paddies, and used to power the Slingshot, http://www.dekaresearch.com/water.shtml which will turn any water into pure drinking water efficiently.

    You could also capture surplus power and convert it to hydrogen through the relatively simple process of electrolysis, and store it for later use either to be burned or fed into a fuel cell. The fuel cell is expensive, but has the benefit of producing pure H2O as a byproduct. Storing hydrogen requires a double walled tank with water in the outer layer, as it likes to sneak through even the smallest of cracks in a weld. Turbines, internal combustion, and even open (invisible) flame can also harness hydrogen.

    H.

  6. #6
    Scotty Hit It...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangyhyena View Post

    But solar and wind are not ideal. If the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine, no power for you.
    I have to strongly disagree. My wife and I have been living offgrid for 5yrs. Powering our home with solar and wind. We have never been in the "no power for you" situation.
    Last edited by jerrymrc; 09-14-2010 at 19:33.

  7. #7
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
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    How can you make such a long statement about bucking old methods, then suggest 100 year old wood gasification?
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  8. #8
    Stircrazy Jer jerrymrc's Avatar
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    just fixed your quote Offgrid.

    Here in Colorado I would agree that the no sun/no wind is a very short time span. I remember Offgrid's setup and as I remember there was enough capacity to go a number of days without both.

    Even on the worst days there is still some output from solar. It may not be what ya want or could use but it is still there.
    I see you running, tell me what your running from

    Nobody's coming, what ya do that was so wrong.

  9. #9
    Machine Gunner Hoosier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by offgrid View Post
    I have to strongly disagree. My wife and I have been living offgrid for 5yrs. Powering our home with solar and wind. We have never been in the "no power for you" situation.
    Awesome, what do you use for storage, deep cycle batteries? Do you track your power consumption in the house, or have any idea what you're using in terms of Kw/hr average?

    H.

  10. #10
    Scotty Hit It...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Awesome, what do you use for storage, deep cycle batteries? Do you track your power consumption in the house, or have any idea what you're using in terms of Kw/hr average?

    H.
    Have sealed AGM batteries. Our battery bank gives us 6 days of storage. Rarely do we cycle our batteries below 15%. Installed a utility KW meter on the output of the 240AC inverters. Average 270-300KW's a month consumption. Also have meters on the output of the wind and solar.

    Will be glad to answer any questions about this stuff.

    Crappy picture of my Outback power panel.


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