Home defense, questions....

[newracer]

Plus everybody knows with a pump shotgun go don't even have to shoot. Just rack the slide and the BGs go running. [wink]

I was being sarcastic. If anything rackingthe slide will just let the perp where you are and may direct fire in your direction.

[Colorado Osprey]

If he (or she) is in your house and doing something illegal then you can kill them. They don't have to represent themselves as a threat to you.

WRONG

From 18-1-704 2(a)
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury

It's called homicide and wrongful death. If the bad guy is no longer a threat, the make my day law will no cover you guys; also just because someone is breaking a law does not give you a right to kill them...or attempt the same

CRS 18-1-704
Case Law Rulings:
When an initial aggressor withdraws from an encounter ......the initial victim continues the attack, the victim then becomes the aggressor and is no longer entitled to act in self-defense. People v. Goedecke, 730 P.2d 900 (Colo. App. 1986).
Right to kill in self-defense is not limited to cases where assailant intends to commit a felony. Ritchey v. People, 23 Colo. 314, 47 P. 272 (1896).

I'm not trying to start a pi55ing match, but I just wanted people to know they can not attempt to kill someone just because they are in your house. Being in the house is illegal if you didn't invite them in--trespassing.

[BadShot]

Finish quoting the entire law... while you are correct in your partial excerpt, there is MUCH more to it than you've provided , but only quoting part of the law as you have Osprey and a few pieces of case law related is not cool. Everyone should read and understand the ENTIRE law.

Really

[2ndChildhood]

This thread got me thinking...
How many of us have experienced a situation where we needed home defense weapons?
Then I looked up state crime stats for 2003 & 2004. http://cbi.state.co.us/dr/docs_reports.asp
In 2003 and 2004, adding up the numbers for homicide, rape, robbery, burglary & auto theft the average was a 1.3% chance that one could experience one of these.
(1299 offenses per 100,000 population)

I think there's more than a hundred of us. Which 1.3 of us got hit?

2C

[The1andOnlyKC]

Colorado Osprey that is the wrong law. That is in defense of a person outside of their home.

If you guys are talking about the Make My Day Law or home defense law. Here it is

18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

Statute text
(1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

(3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.

(4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

[The1andOnlyKC]

On another note those.

Colorado Osprey is correct according to the law you cant just start shooting because someone comes in your house. Read the law and post comments.

[Merl]

... and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

so if they turn and run you better not shoot them in the back.

the first part about another crime in addition to trespass is to protect the drunk passed out on your lawn. someone comes into my house uninvited it's a pretty safe bet that they are there to rob me at minimum.

[cheapo]

... the sound of the slide racking back is unmistakable in American culture and will stop just about anyone breaking into a house

If you are using that sound to intimidate a bad guy, to be honest, loudly chambering an AR would be pretty intimidating too, becuase it sure doesn't sound like a .22. I am not an experienced 3 gunner, so having a 30 rd mag is more comforting than having to pump a shot gun for every round.

[Artyboy]

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

If they're in your house and you don't know who they are then it's definately reasonable to believe that they are there with the intent to break the law. They don't have to be breaking a law when you shoot them. Even if they don't intend to break the law you can still shoot them. If they're there to borrow a cup of sugar and you just happened to leave the front door unlocked then chances are they're going to announce their presence.

That doesn't mean that I'm sitting here praying for someone to break into my house so I can shoot them. It just means that if someone breaks into my house I have no idea what they're doing there and I'm going to assume the worst to protect my family and me.

[BadShot]

Seems like we may have hijacked the thread... sorry for that, but this issue needs constant discussion..

Section two is the relevant portion for this purposes of this discussion.

“Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.”

... They left this portion specifically vague so that a home defense shooting could not be twisted by local law enforcement and or DA's…. EVERY shooting is surrounded by differing circumstances.. That is such a wide area of definition that I don't think there has been a significant counter to many if any cases that are covered under that law.

Remember that there are other laws which apply to protection of property and self outside of the home and as such, can sometimes relate to how this specific law applies to the situation.

I'm not a lawyer, LEO or what not, but I am an intelligent (easy guys :P ) adult with at least a moderate reading comprehension level. It doesn't take a lawyer to understand that there will be OBVIOUS exceptions to my understanding and the specific situational factors.

=======

Cheapo... my point really is that the sound of a shotgun is FAR more pronounced that that of a bolt on an AR in the minds of most folks. I'm not saying that any loud bolt cycling will garner the generally undivided attention of an intruder. Most have folks I've spoken with have an idea... read mental image.. of what a shotgun can and will do to the human body. Where as most folks, do not truly perceive pistols and rifles as being nearly as pronounced in their effects as a shotgun.

I say this referring to my personal experience with laymen and other people I've spoken with about firearms. .. Just had a laugh thinking about how much differently this would be if it were being had by a good number of Southerners I’ve met and worked with over the last few months [roll]

Right wrong or indifferent, I firmly believe that shotguns are generally more intimidating to the average person, especially when you only have the chambering sound to go by.

=======

Osprey.. Regarding using your 9mm carbine rather than a shotty... I'm happy to hear you've practiced and engaged in training that helps further your skills and confidence with your weapons. Not enough of us do so!!!

I personally believe that for close quarter’s engagements within confined space and having a desire to reduce secondary penetrations along with several other factors; a shotgun is a far more effective weapon. I believe that not just speaking on the physiological facets and implications of the weapon on intruders.

I'm not saying your personal choice as stated is wrong for your ability and location, as a matter of fact I believe it is indeed a good choice for you. If for no other reason than to trust that you know your skills and situation far better than I could.

Then again, I could be wrong on all of the above counts... it's happened once or twice before