Impromptu Ranges and safety during a shoot

[Ice Pirate]

I'm rather new to this site, but not to shooting. I've been an Air Force CATM, (Combat Arms Training and Maintenance) Instructor for 27 years and run firing both on formal ranges as well as informal and impromptu ranges. By impromptu, I mean scrapping a line in the dirt and calling it the firing line. In all of those years, no one on my line has ever been shot. I will admit, there have been a fare share of close calls, I've had shooters get cut, scuffed, and bent, but never shot. So I know that things can get a little hairy at times when you've got a couple of dozen shooters, all wanting to shoot at the same time, and everyone has their own game plan. Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it.

MY POINT:
I saw another post here with a link to a raft of pics of a recent club shoot. Me being me, I checked the pics out and was a little disharted at what I saw. An impromptu range with people shooting from a raft of different positions and a raft of different weapons. No worries there.

What DID bother me, was that in several of the pics, there were people forward of the line of tables firing, while others were several feet behind the tables firing. The pics also showed muzzles pointed in every direction imaginable. Seeing the pics, I have to thank God that nobody was shot.

I don't mean to be a dick here, but the weapons we carry, shoot and yes I'll admit it, LOVE, are just that, WEAPONS. They are tools designed to inflict injury and damage on the human body, as well as anything else they engage.

I love to shoot and have fun with good friends, but safety with shooting has got to be paramount. Please tell me that not all of your shoots are run so poorly! I'm not trying to put any one down here, but I think if I'd have walked up to that range and saw what the picks showed me was going on, I'd have been real vocal real fast, and if I didn't see things change fast, I'd have left.

Well I wasn't at that shoot, but I am here, and I am being vocal. If you think I'm wrong here, or just a grumpy old man who's trying to ruin your fun, just say so. I'll leave. I don't like to be around if I have no control and others are being unsafe. If, however, you agree that even fun shoots need a higher level of safety, then speak up. Thats what forums like this are for.

It is possible to have fun and safety together.

[Wallary]

Howdy Ice Pirate. I took those pics of the south shoot and at the time I really didn't see a problem with the line. In most of the shots I was a few feet behind and to the side of the shooters This may of changed the angle of the line in the camara, also we were set up on a slope again this may have something to do with the way the angle appears to the camara . But I did view some of the pics again and I see your point. One guy was way over the line in almost all the photos, standing in front of the tables. I'm very supprised nobody said anything to him. We were not in perfect alinment, and the group photo shows a few un-maned weapons pointing towards the shooters. I can't say they were unloaded but I wasn't threaten by them sitting on the table. All I can tell you is thanks for pointing out some basic safety guide lines, and I'm sure SAFETY will come first at the next shoot. Your welcome to come and shoot at the next one on 06/17/06 at the North shoot area near Lyons. We would appreciate all the safety advice we can get. Thank you Ice Pirate and I hope you can help our club be the best it can be. I think this should shine some light on the safety issues we need to address. Thanks again, Larry [usa]

[2ndChildhood]

Ice Pirate,
I'm assuming you are referring to the recent south shoot pictures. I was not at the shoot, nor am I a real experienced shooter. For those reasons and because the camera angles are in some cases deceptive, I won't comment on the pictures. What I can say is that if someone shows up at a shoot making safety suggestions I will certainly pay full attention to that and try to learn the safest way to enjoy our get togethers.
Thanks for your comments and concern.
2C

[HunterCO]

I am very anal about safety and I never seen anybody point weapons in an unsafe manner. I can assure you I would have said something and that is putting it lightly. All weapons that were on the tables were cleared slide locked back, bolt locked back or in the case of a revolver the cylinder open.

The guy that came with gearhead got a little far foreward but at the angles we where shooting at I didn't say anything. You are being fooled by the camer angles trust me it was not as it appeared.

The one thing I also noticed which I might add is my biggest pet peeve is everybody I observed kept their damn finger off the trigger untill they were ready to shoot.

Icepirate I agree with you 100% safety is #1 period with any shooting activity but I think you are being fooled by the camera angles.

[GearHead]

I’m new at shooting and I would WELCOME ANY tips on safety, or shooting in general. We were on the end and in an awkward spot. My cuz did get a little forward and we were asked politely to move back. THANK YOU.. I’m learning, please give me constructive feedback.

This shoot, I learned that even though I drove 2 hours and forgot my target stand, it is NOT acceptable to place targets on trees. Even if they are burnt and dead.

I learned that even though I brought a garbage can and collected more than I brought in, I shouldn’t leave targets for the “next guy”.

I learned that this really is a great group to go shooting with and that they would welcome you and provide any support that you needed.

Ice, I would welcome you and your experience any time! You are exactly the type of person that I would like to learn from.

I took my first shot from an AR just about 6 months ago, and everything I learned was from this group. Thank you again!

[PsychoI3oy]

I had a similar experience as GearHead last summer when I was a very new shooter.

Karl yelled at me for having the barrel of my 10/22 more than 45 degrees off perpindicular to the firing line, and I'm glad he did because I wasn't paying attention (obviously not a good thing).

I can't think of anything other than that specifically, but overall everyone is pretty safety concious and the people not shooting tend to look out for the ones that are.

+1 on cameras making perspective all wonky for who's ahead/behind an imaginary line in space when you have little reference for how tall people are or how long their firearms are. That's not to say that people don't make mistakes, but every shoot I've been to has been really good about maintaining a proper firing line.

[bbadmin]

****Official Post****



Ice Pirate brings up a good point. And although I was not there I too have always had concerns about safety and decorum at a club shoot. These shoots are informal, but they must be safe.

There is no other option.

So, here is what I suggest we do.

I suggest that at every club shoot, and or any other shoot we show up at, we designate a range safety officer. That person would be in charge of range safety at all times. Which means, when they are the RSO they are not shooting they are watching. This position can be traded off, but one RSO should be "on duty" at all times.

We select someone to be a designated driver so we get home safely, we should be no less diligent in our approach to range safety. One accident would be one to many, and could result in lots of legal entanglements, not to mention potential injury.

As some of you know, I am an NRA Instructor, and I am now an NRA Training Counselor. The TC part means I can train instructors and range safety officers. As a result here's what I suggest.

I will offer to put on an official NRA Range Safety Officer course this summer. I could put on several. I will offer it to all members here for little cost. The cost will cover materials and such, but I won't make a profit on it. Right now I'm guessing the cost would be about $25 per person, plus your fee to the NRA if you want to get certified by them. (When I took mine I was charged $85.

Hopefully we'll get enough people trained that we can have two or three at every shoot. That way the RSO can trade off and shoot his or her own guns as well.

All I need for an RSO class is students and a classroom. The official course outline shows it takes nine hours. We could get this done in one day, or spread it out over two days.

I'm also open to any other suggestions, but this seems like a good alternative.

Input?





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[BadShot]

Considering how large the average shoot is starting to get, it is time to start formalizing the range rules and have a more structured brief before we start. I have to admit to being a bit concerned and unsure about the South shoot that I attended. My biggest issue was who was in charge; there wasn't a clear designation at first... it was Marlin for the most part, everyone knows him and let him be in charge of calling cease fires etc... but the range boundaries were not clearly identified to at least myself and I just applied common sense.

So yeah, sign me up for the RSO class (so long as it isn't on a Kid Weekend) and I'd be happy to help in that role.

Ice Pirate, I know I appreciate your choosing to speak up. Please do come to a shoot. I get the feeling you'll be one hell of an asset.

[HunterCO]

I would be more than happy to take a RSO class and get certified. If you put on a class let me know and I will make sure to be there.

I would prefer to do it all in one day since I am going to assume you would hold the class in the springs.

[bbadmin]

Actually I thought about doing a North class and a South class.

We'll work on a set of range safety rules and get them posted / distributed.