More effective/fairer gun control

[Artyboy]

You're exactly right. Benjamin Franklin once said "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security". Liberty and responsibility also go hand in hand. It's too bad that more and more people are willing to give up their liberties for a stronger sense of security. Every gun restriction really does chink away at our rights a little bit at a time. The people that are making these laws might think that they have our best interests in mind but they won't be in charge forever. If they do end up winning then it leaves us, the people, defenseless if some dictator comes along and decides that he wants to start doing things his way somewhere down the line. I'm not saying that we're losing the battle because things have really started to swing our (gun owners) way over the last few years. Things could change at any given time, though. The gun grabbers have the media on their side which makes it pretty tough for us. Hell, most of the people that I talk to don't even know that you can own suppressors, select fire guns or several of the other toys that we like to play with. If more people knew that you could build an AK from a $100 kit and $50 in parts in your garage I think that they'd get scared. There are still a good number of people out there that would think "wow how cool is that" which is, in my opinion, keeping the anti gun media blitz at bay for now. We're being conditioned to believe that guns are dangerous and that normal people shouldn't be able to own them, though. Admitting that an ex felon is too dangerous to be trusted with a gun is just one of the first steps along that line of thinking.

[DanaT]

I think the basic premis of your arguement is flawed. The basic principle of your arguements is that when the proper conditions are met, then the government will grant permission to own a firearm. This is just like a drivers license. Go look at what laws say about drivers licensese. They are "privileges" that the government can revoke at any time. This is different than a "right".

People in the USA have the RIGHT to bear arms not the PRIVILEGE to bear arms. This is the same as you have the RIGHT to free speech, not a PRIVILEGE to free speech.

Should we make sure that before you are allowed to make a public speech that you meet the required training requirements so as not to endanger anyone with your speech?

Or how about this, if you are properly trained in law, should you only have the PRIVILEGE of a trial (which can be revoked at anytime) and not the RIGHT to a trial?

Do you see what is the arguement?

-Dana

[samuraii]

Second step is making every infraction of the law grounds to remove your rights to own a firearm. First it's a felony, then a DV misdemeanor, then what? Before you know it they make you a criminal and the gun grabbers have won.

Oh and something interesting that I learned the other week that just chaps my a$$ is that UN treaties over-shadow our constitution. So if the US signs a treaty with the UN to get rid of all small arms...it will be post Katrina all over the US.

That is why IANSA and Rebecca Peters are so dangerous.

[DanaT]

The fact of the matter is that our system does not work, it's over crowded, and people that commit horrendous crimes get out after a few years.... Do you really want a Child Rapist, or a Murder that’s been in prison for 20 years to legally be able to buy a gun? I don’t. I agree with wtf are they doing out. But usually even ones who committed minor crimes come out of jail worse than they came in because they learned from the real bad guys. So i agree with making it illegal for a felon to buy a gun...

It seems then that your beef is with the prison system. They aren't reforming most prisoners. How long does one have to pay a debt to scoiety?

I think there should be some probation period for felons to own firearms but they should be able get that right back and the right to vote. I also think that some felonies are different than others. Someone convicted of embezzling is probably less likely to commit a violent crime than some convicted of a felony which involved violence. I think the balck and white approach is wrong.

-Dana

[Artyboy]

Second step is making every infraction of the law grounds to remove your rights to own a firearm. First it's a felony, then a DV misdemeanor, then what? Before you know it they make you a criminal and the gun grabbers have won.

Oh and something interesting that I learned the other week that just chaps my a$$ is that UN treaties over-shadow our constitution. So if the US signs a treaty with the UN to get rid of all small arms...it will be post Katrina all over the US.

That is why IANSA and Rebecca Peters are so dangerous.

The fact that they chose the 4th of July of all days makes me even more nervous about the whole UN conferance thing. They've got some balls doing something like that. It just seems like they're testing the waters to try and measure the American public's general reaction to the whole situation.

[HunterCO]

Second step is making every infraction of the law grounds to remove your rights to own a firearm. First it's a felony, then a DV misdemeanor, then what? Before you know it they make you a criminal and the gun grabbers have won.

Oh and something interesting that I learned the other week that just chaps my a$$ is that UN treaties over-shadow our constitution. So if the US signs a treaty with the UN to get rid of all small arms...it will be post Katrina all over the US.

That is why IANSA and Rebecca Peters are so dangerous.

The only thing dangerous is me if they ever want to try it. NOTHING can ever take my rights read my sig line. They may think they can and all I can say is God help them.

[usa]

[samuraii]

The fact that they chose the 4th of July of all days makes me even more nervous about the whole UN conferance thing. They've got some balls doing something like that. It just seems like they're testing the waters to try and measure the American public's general reaction to the whole situation.

That is exactly what I believe they are doing. Nothing quite like celebrating our independence by having a conference on small arms and ways to take our freedoms away. :evil: Because the gun bans/restrictions are working SO well in Canada, Australia and the UK don't you know. :roll:

Like that saying goes, they will never take your hunting rifle from you. They will call it a sniper rifle first.


While I agree with Hunter, one thing to think about. If it ever did happen those that didn't comply would be criminals and there would be US and UN military forces here to enforce the new treaty.

[Artyboy]

The fact that they chose the 4th of July of all days makes me even more nervous about the whole UN conferance thing. They've got some balls doing something like that. It just seems like they're testing the waters to try and measure the American public's general reaction to the whole situation.

That is exactly what I believe they are doing. Nothing quite like celebrating our independence by having a conference on small arms and ways to take our freedoms away. :evil: Because the gun bans/restrictions are working SO well in Canada, Australia and the UK don't you know. :roll:

Like that saying goes, they will never take your hunting rifle from you. They will call it a sniper rifle first.


While I agree with Hunter, one thing to think about. If it ever did happen those that didn't comply would be criminals and there would be US and UN military forces here to enforce the new treaty.

I just hope upon hope that enough of our military and LEOs would take a stand and realize that what those people want to do is unconstitutional and take our side. I've gone to some big public message boards and asked people what they think of our gun rights and the overwhelming response seems to be positive. That doesn't mean that most of them would fight for their rights but as long as the majority wants to be able to keep their guns then I don't think that the govt would be stupid enough to take them away. You never know how far someone will go if you really push them. I think that they're going to wait until the majority wants to give up their guns before they make a move like that. That way they can just label the people who resist as criminals and nut cases and the general population will accept it. Oh wait that already happened in Waco ops:.

[Delphi]

The UN is trying to take our guns away????? You've got to be shitting me..... :evil:

If that happens they are gonna have at least one really F'ing pissed american at they're doorstep in NYC!!!!!!!!!!! Like wtf.... in my opionion we should get rid of the UN........

If this happens, which i'm sure it wont, their will be no limit to my rage.....


I think i'd have to prepare some real fireworks on the 4th of july! :twisted:

[Artyboy]

http://www.stopungunban.org/