Arm the teachers!

[Artyboy]

What do they need additional training for? How many CCL holders pull out their guns and shoot people without good reason? See how many articles you can find where a CCL holder acted irresponsibly and wasn't at least arguably justified in the shoot. I'll bet I can find two articles with a school getting shot up for every one that you find. IMO it's not about the training. It's the fact that responsible citizens that make the decision to carry a gun don't take it lightly. Why would teachers be any differant? I don't know about some of you guys but my gun doesn't whisper to me to go ahead and shoot that guy that just cut me off or that clerk that was rude to me in the store.

The people that commit these crimes are psychos. For the most part they just want attention and they get it on a national level. They're going in, indiscriminately killing people and then killing themselves. We're not talking about little Jimmy who keeps a gun in his locker and just snaps one day, grabs it and goes on a shooting spree. We're talking about people who are walking into these schools armed with the intention of killing people and then themselves. What will metal detectors do? They'll just walk right past them. What will armed guards do? They'll just shoot them. Do you want our kids to have to walk past soldiers with their rifles at the ready just waiting for one of them to step out of line? Do you really think that an armed guard will get to his gun fast enough if the person is intent on getting in there with his gun?

In a perfect world armed security and metal detectors are a great idea. Unfortunately someone has to pay for them and it'll end up being us. It's just a knee-jerk, feel good reaction to a problem that we don't have a lot of control over. Check out this website when you get a chance. It describes several school shootings that happend in the last decade. You can google most of them and get more information. For the most part it was either a psycho or two that did it or it happened in the parking lot.

Look at the Red Lake shooting in Minnesota. That kid shot a security guard, walked through the metal detectors and then killed 5 kids, a teacher and then himself. How did he get his gun? He killed his grandparents (his grandfater was a LEO) and used his gun in the shootings.

These are the types of people that are doing these shootings. They're extremely fucked in the head. How is a guard, even if he is armed, going to stop someone that's intent on walking into a school and killing people if the person just walks right up, indsicriminately kills him and then just walks in to do his thing? Now the armed guard is out of the equation and everyone has to wait for the police? What if the guard at the entrance isn't armed and the guard that IS armed is in a random part of the school that's nowhere near the kid with the gun? Maybe we should have MULTIPLE armed guards in every school.

Do you see how we're just throwing away money at a problem? Just let the damn teachers arm themselves if they want to and leave it at that. The schools that really DO have a problem with gang bangers and people bringing guns into the school already have metal detectors. A metal detector and armed security in every Amish schoolhouse in the country is a bit overkill don't you think?

[Atrain]

Just let the damn teachers arm themselves if they want to and leave it at that.

No. If someone is going to be protecting my children with a weapon, they better know how to use it very well...and just having a CCW doesn't qualify you.

If they want to carry it to protect themselves, I have no problem with that, but that is a different topic.

[Gman]

It's interesting to see the focus here on enforcing gun laws, but whackjobs don't need a gun. It's happened with knives and I could see this happening with some machete wielding nut or someone with a homemade explosives collection.

This isn't the first time most of these individuals have showed up on the radar. The mind of a killer is more dangerous than a tool used by one. How many times must we hear about the odd behavior of these nuts after they've blown up?

[Pistol Packing Preacher]

Quote "It's happened with knives and I could see this happening with some machete wielding nut..."

Answer: BAN MACHETES!!!!!

[PsychoI3oy]

By colorado state law, any knife over 3.5" is a weapon....


Wait, sorry, logical argument against emotional one. proceed with the !sanity.

[Jay Kominek]

Inexperienced teachers shooting around kids can be just as dangerous to them as the BG.

Intention counts for nothing? A teacher will at least be making an effort to aim towards the bad guy, and will stop shooting when the bad guy stops moving.
The bad guy is aiming specifically for the kids, and if history is any guide, they'll keep going so long as they've got ammunition and targets.

If they want to carry it to protect themselves, I have no problem with that, but that is a different topic.

Unless they want to protect themselves while they're at work.

It's interesting to see the focus here on enforcing gun laws, but whackjobs don't need a gun. It's happened with knives and I could see this happening with some machete wielding nut or someone with a homemade explosives collection.

They don't even need tools. A sufficiently beefy guy could harm or kill plenty of students (especially at the younger ages) with his bare hands.

[Atrain]

Intention counts for nothing?

Yes, intention counts for nothing. Someone who decides to be responsible for protecting a classroom full of kids with a firearm better have more training than a 3 hour CCW lecture. Good grief, they require 4 years of training to teach math!

Unless they want to protect themselves while they're at work.

We were talking about teachers carrying firearms in school to protect children, not about teachers protecting themselves.

[/quote]

[Jay Kominek]

We were talking about teachers carrying firearms in school to protect children, not about teachers protecting themselves.

Being permitted to protect themselves would have the secondary effect of protecting the children, by proximity. Basically the same effect that concealed carry proponents argue helps bring down crime, despite the fact that only a very tiny fraction of the population receives concealed carry permits.

Yes, intention counts for nothing.

If intention counts for nothing, how do you support concealed carry at all? The only difference between a first-time criminal and someone with a permit is the "3 hour CCW lecture" and good intentions. These people have surely been in the same room as your children at a restraunt or store!

[Atrain]

We can go on and on with this. I will give my opinion on this topic one more time and leave it alone.

As a solution to protecting children at school, having a few untrained teachers with firearms is a bad idea.

[Gman]

Does the possibility of encountering armed resistance and discouraging a nut from executing some whacked out exit strategy more beneficial than the chance a child might be hurt in the exchange of gunfire? Remember that these scumbags are often executing the kids and not shooting haphazardly at running targets.


How is this discussion much different from CCW in general?

To paraphrase;
'As a solution to protecting citizens in society, having a few untrained citizens with firearms is a bad idea.'

Those of us that believe in the 2nd Amendment and CCW don't want government turning the entire society into a free-kill zone where criminality rules the law-abiding, so why do we expect the current strategy in schools to be much different?