Arm the teachers!

[Scott]

I'm all for the arming of teachers. My mother was a teacher at West High School in Denver for many years. I can't count the number of times that she wished she had a gun for defense, especially when leaving the school late at night. trv1911 is absolutely right in the fact that not all teachers will or should carry. I can recall one incident where my mom broke up a fight in the hall way between two gang bangers. All the male teachers in hall way quickly dispersed into their class rooms leaving her high and dry. She ended up getting hit 5 times before she got the ass holes to seperate. Although I never saw her in front of a class room myself, I suspect that she was one of those teachers that would do what ever it took to protect her students.

[Artyboy]

trv1911 I agree with you 110% on all of your points. I posted this on another website but I think that it applies here, too. It was in response to someone who said that they wouldn't have trusted most of their teachers with a gun. This is why I think teachers should be allowed to pack heat.

If those teachers are so intent on hating everything about their job then what's to stop them from taking a gun to school despite the laws? If that happened then no one would be able to defend against them. Do you honestly believe that your teachers would be so irrational that had they had a gun on them they could snap at any time and start blowing people away? By allowing officers to patrol the schools then everyone will know exactly who's armed. Besides, what's the differance between a teacher that hates their job and an armed security guard that hates their job? Part of the idea behind allowing people to CC is that no one knows who's armed so everyone assumes that everyone is armed. Among other things it creates a much more polite society.

How often do you hear about people with concealed carry licenses snapping or doing something retarded? What's the differance between a teacher with a CCL and anyone else on the street with a CCL? I don't know if you live in a gun free zone or not but CO is pretty conservative when it comes to gun laws. I have never once noticed someone's gun on them and I see plenty of people that I know are carrying. I've never been questioned about it, either. I would trust a person that I knew had a CCL before I'd trust just about anyone else. Why is that? Because they've shown competency with a gun, they've accepted the responsibility of carrying a gun and they've passed extensive background checks to get that CCL.

[Gman]

Any place where law-abiding people are prohibited from carrying becomes a 'free-kill zone' when the lawless don't abide.

Why is there no mention of the 2 school shootings where teachers went to their vehicles and retrieved their firearm to end the violence?

[Scott]

Any place where law-abiding people are prohibited from carrying becomes a 'free-kill zone' when the lawless don't abide.

Why is there no mention of the 2 school shootings where teachers went to their vehicles and retrieved their firearm to end the violence?

Got a link to this?

[BadShot]

Guess I've been delaying a detailed rational for my points. The fact that bothers me the most is that you all know better. You all understand that the level of training that would be required for these people to have the appropriate skill sets to handle a proper take down is far and above anything that either they or the school systems could afford. Look at what they pay a teacher and tell me how they could afford the several thousands of dollars a year a true professional spends on their training!

We all know that to be proficient in any skill, you have to practice, drill and have consistent and intense on-going training. Hell, the teachers don't get enough of that just to perform their job as it stands, and some how, some of you believe that they would get the right and consistent training to be armed in the schools to provide protection? This really frightens me! Again, a great degree of this stems from the fact that one of my children is Autistic and I know the challenges those teachers alone face. I am actively parenting 7 children, I will take the liberty to say I’ve got a fair amount of experience with the average middle class teacher base.

I'm not against people being armed, quite the opposite. I'm as staunch supporter of the right to bear arms as any of us in this community, but placing the responsibility to defend with firearms, the children they are supposed to teach, just isn't the right answer. There are better solutions to this issue than this extreme!

Simple physical security of the facility would go a long long way towards eliminating a significant portion of the supposed threat. But that would be a common sense step that over reaction tends to miss. Show me any and I do mean any Public School building and in 30 minutes I… not even a facilities security expert.. can show how to secure that facility 50-90% better than it already is. Simple and easy steps that would go a long way without near the cost most would suspect. I would also venture a guess that most of you reading this would be able to make the same levels of assessment and recommendations.

The simple fact is that there are groups we know as SWAT (or by other names) that are trained, and not nearly enough by my standard, even within the police force. The Police aren't even trained as a whole to handle these situations. That would be why there are SWAT teams, ect. So to interject and burden the additional liability and responsibility to teachers makes my heart sink. How many police officers do you know that believe they actually get sufficient training? Hell how many of them believe they get enough range time? Much less how many of them feel they are kept up on their training for things not even related to using their weapon? Now go ask any teacher you know if they feel they get enough continuing education to do their job the best they could... I doubt many of you would be overly suprised to hear the answers... they aren't on average by any means, in the positive.

To expect the teaching staff - who's real job isn't even being done as good as it should be - to handle hostage situations, make the determination of when to shoot a kid - lets face the fact that the majority of these incidents are committed by children!! CHILDREN - is just unrealistic, immoral and wrong on more levels than I care to rant about.

Take the money that would be spent on this effort and teach teachers and the children! Care for them; don't put people who already sacrifice so much in a far worse position. For a far lower cost, better physical security (to include personnel as appropriate) can be implemented and the other money can be spent where it belongs, in educating the kids who need it! I’ve never been one of those who objected to the laws prohibiting firearms in schools.

While I doubt there is much that could change my mind on that point, I leave it open.

So tell me, how should this type of solution be implemented? What types of training and how often should that training be mandated. How are we going to pay for the training, ammunition, administration and so forth to make this happen? Rather than just rant and say “Yeah, arm the teachers, that’ll solve the problem”, I challenge to you tell me how and why.

[Gman]

I'm operating off of memory, which isn't working so good lately, but I did Google up at least one. Oddly enough, it's in an article about arming teachers from last year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7297575/

Froman cited the 1997 school shooting incident in Pearl, Miss., where a teacher retrieved a gun from his car when a student opened fire, then held the student at bay until police arrived.

[Gman]

...and here's an article from Investor's Business Daily responding to Rosie O'Donnell's latest idiotic utterance regarding the PA shootings;

http://www.investors.com/editorial/e...0656460&view=1

Gun control advocates such as O'Donnell prefer laws like the Gun Free School Zones Act, which have turned the area inside and outside schools into a free-fire zone for wackos who know there's little possibility they'll be confronted by an armed guard, teacher, principal or parent who might prevent these tragedies by confronting, keeping at bay or disabling an armed intruder.

Last year, seven people were killed at a high school in Red Lake, Minn., that did have a security guard. But the guard, the one individual who could have prevented the tragedy, and who saw the armed and dangerous shooter approach the school, was unarmed.

The problem in Red Lake was not that the nation has too many guns, but that it had one too few. An armed security guard could have held the killer at bay or disabled him. On more than one occasion armed citizens have successfully intervened in school shootings to save lives.

Few Americans are aware that in an October 1997 shooting spree at a Pearl, Miss., high school that left two students dead, an assistant principal retrieved a gun from his car and immobilized the shooter until police arrived, preventing further killings.

A school-related shooting in Edinboro, Pa., that left one teacher dead was stopped only after the owner of a nearby restaurant pointed a gun at the shooter while he was attempting to reload and held him at bay, again preventing more deaths, until police arrived 11 minutes later.

Another school shooting occurred in January 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia, when a disgruntled former student killed Law Dean L. Anthony Sutin, associate professor Thomas Blackwell and another student. Two of the three students who overpowered the gunman were armed; they ran to their cars to get the guns they used to disarm the shooter and prevent more deaths.

My point is that this stuff is a lot harder to find than the usual tripe being pushed by the liberal legacy media.

[Scott]

Thanks for the links.

My point is that this stuff is a lot harder to find than the usual tripe being pushed by the liberal legacy media.

Sadly, you are 100% correct about it being harder to find and less known. I hadn't heard of these incidents until you brought them up. Thanks.

[Atrain]

Yeah...that's where I want my kids, in a classroom right between a psychopath and a poorly trained teacher swapping lead. Until I feel my kids will be completely safe at school, they will be getting home schooled.

[pickenup]

My point of view on this is quite simple.
Either you believe in it, or you don’t.

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”