How bad is this state going to be in 5yrs?

[XJ]

It is job search time for me, and although I like it well enough in the Springs there isn't anything keeping me here. Most engineering jobs seem to be the Denver metro area (ugh), or the industrial areas further North (???).

Obviously I would never want to live in the city itself, but it is not difficult to see the signs that big-city attitudes are growing faster than the population.

Trying to stay away from the "sky is falling" types of thougt, and considering seriously what changes are likely to come our way.

[Great-Kazoo]

Obviously I would never want to live in the city itself, but it is not difficult to see the signs that big-city attitudes are growing faster than the population.


you mean liberal (guns are bad, help the needy with your money, let me drive my suv) attitude.
we're out of here in 5 years tops. by then the housing mkt should be very healthy. until then it's hang on and try to enjoy the ride.

[SigsRule]

And go where. As a retired military I've lived a lot of places. As a traveling consultant I've seen even more. Colorado is where I want to be.

Of course I don't commute in the daily traffic, when I'm not on the road in LA or Houston or Chicago or Washington DC or Toronto or London or Helsinki or any of a dozen other places I'm working out of my home office in the suburbs. It's the suburbs incidently where I am surrounded by at least four NRA life members that I know of (I'm one too) just from running into while walking my dog, and we all vote. People lament all the Kalifornia expatriates moving here, but they're coming because we're still free here - and if we all keep voting right, we'll stay that way.

[Great-Kazoo]

And go where

idaho, NM, arid zona, maybe SD.
yes colorado has almost everything we like, thats why we moved here.
if we stayed i'd consider alamosa.
but it's at that point where having everything, is not as important as it used to be.

[Recon]

To answer your question, in five years you will see more of the same. You will see it here, and wherever you go.

To extrapolate, this is a subject dear to my heart. Sorry it is long winded. Following is my personal opinion, based upon personal experience and my perceptions of that experience, as well as the many people I’ve met.

Every place where you find people was once a better place before those people started showing up. That is the reason they showed up. It was a better place.

There are two types of people who show up.

1. Those who are running to the place;
2. Those who are running from some other place.

The former tend to be liberal, social, and, ironically, concerned more with the environment than they are with the people around them. When they show up, they tend to take steps to protect the place by keeping other people out, or by limiting free use of property. They try to keep the new environment from becoming the old environment. They are thus subject to the false and lazy charge of hypocrisy. While they tend to have more social tendencies, they subordinate those tendencies to the welfare of the land.

The latter tend to be conservative, less social, and concerned more with property rights than they are with the land. When they show up, they seem hell bent on doing to the new environment everything that was done to the old environment. They clear cut, mine, farm, overgraze, subdivide, pave, develop, shoot the local predators, etc. They are thus subject to the false and lazy charge of hypocrisy. While they tend to have less social tendencies, they subordinate these feelings to the right of others to do as they wish with their own land.

The irony in both is multifaceted. Those who admit to, or even embrace their social tendencies, care more about the environment than people, and they end up loving it to death. Those who fancy themselves rugged individualist loners tend to be even more dependent on other people, and they care more about people’s rights, and they end up encouraging and profiting from population growth.

Again, some folks are running to, while others are running from. An analogy would be those who fall in love with someone because of who that person is, on the one hand, and someone who is on the rebound and looking for someone better than the last person they were with. The former doesn’t always appreciate the fact that their new lover might grow and change. The later doesn’t always appreciate the new lover in their own right, and tends to mold them to their own selfish wishes. Both can adversely affect the new lover because both are thinking about themselves. The new lover is secondary.

While there are gradients and combinations of these traits found in both ends of the spectrum, most people are more of one than the other. I tend to be more liberal and environmentally oriented. On the other hand, I’m not a big people person and fancy myself a loner. I will, however, confess my dependence on society.

I was born and raised in Colorado, in the sticks. I left to serve, and travel the world. When I returned, those sticks were deep in the heart of suburbia. So I left for the sticks of Idaho and lived there for fourteen years. I saw Idaho going the way of Colorado because of people like those above. I was one of them. However, there was more of the latter than the former, and I hated watching them ruin the place. I fought it the whole time I was there. But it was a losing battle and it was too sad watching the death of what I loved.

I came home to Colorado and found myself another place in the sticks. I try to console myself with the fact that my place in the sticks was already developed (1860s) when I got here, but I can’t help but believe it would be better off without me. Like everyone else though, I’m not going to shoot myself because of it. Nor am I going to move to New York City. I just try to reduce my foot print on the land where I can conveniently do so.

I would do some soul searching before packing my bags. I used to covet elk antlers, buffalo skulls, wolves and grizzly bears to the point that I wanted to own them. Then I realized: I do own them. I just keep them in Yellowstone.

The point here is to try and be satisfied with what you have, and realize that public lands are just as important to America as any other aspect of it. The people in New York City may have all the same legal freedoms that we have out west, but you can’t honestly tell me they are as free as we are. All the freedoms in the world aren’t worth much if you don’t have a place to be free in. Or, as Aldo Leopold said: “Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?”

In short, before you move, think about your foot print on what you love. Actually owning a piece of heaven can also be an expensive and time consuming pain in the ass. The liberal in me thinks the government does a pretty good job, considering all those people, discussed above, that they have to deal with. Defend and protect your public lands from those who would make them more like what they are not.

My ten cents.

[XJ]

Wow, Recon.

I'm a bit more shallow than that. And should have mentioned I can't keep up with local news while on the road every week.

I'm mostly concerned about Denver becoming the next Chicago, not being able to afford a decent house (away from the hood and HOAs), Home Depot parking lots looking like they do in CA, legislative action on firearms, serious tax changes, amphibians falling from the sky, etc.

It's past time to put down roots and I just don't have a good feel for where things are headed. Everyone knows that CA is going downhill faster than say TX, but where does CO fit in?

[Recon]

As far as firearms legislation is concerned, and taxes, Wyoming and Idaho would be good bets. They'll be the last to go down the gun control route and the natural resource extraction industries pay alot of the frieght in services that are usually picked up by tax payers. Boise was booming when I was there, but if Colorado thinks it is getting Californicated, then they ain't seen nothing. Wyoming is more boom and bust, and winter is on par with Fairbanks, but it's a beutiful place and you can shoot for miles. :mrgreen:

[Marlin]

I recall a report from 25-30 years ago, the gist of it was that the front range would be one big city from Cheyenne to the Springs by 2000. Didn't quite make that, it is close though. I do know this though, The place that I am at now, 35 years ago, I was in a field, about 250 yards from the Highline canal. It's 5 miles from My Mother's house. You could go over the hill and have the feeling of being in the middle of no where. Today, it's the Electric room for a club house for a retirement community. It has a 5 year plan for 800-1000 units.

[Recon]

I recall a report from 25-30 years ago, the gist of it was that the front range would be one big city from Cheyenne to the Springs by 2000. Didn't quite make that, it is close though. I do know this though, The place that I am at now, 35 years ago, I was in a field, about 250 yards from the Highline canal. It's 5 miles from My Mother's house. You could go over the hill and have the feeling of being in the middle of no where. Today, it's the Electric room for a club house for a retirement community. It has a 5 year plan for 800-1000 units.

It's crazy. We used to go picnic and hike around the Natural Fort between Cheyenne and Wellington before I-25 was built right through the middle of it. Then, when I-25 was built, my dad drove me from Ft. Collins to Denver and back and we didn't pass anyone going either direction. Now it's asshole to elbow, 80 mph, at 3:00 a.m. on a Tuesday.