SHTF Groups

[roberth]

The problem is in finding people you can talk about SHTF honestly with, then choose a leader and leadership structure, then come up with a training plan, then finding the time to train. Much easier said than done.

It must be a cohesive group with clearly communicated, commonly shared, deep values. Think back to the old communities of the West in our country's early days!

I'm in a "group", and while I won't get into specifics I can say that it just developed naturally through conversation with close friends.

Here are some issues we've encountered.
1. Family members "cool, we're coming to your house when SHTF. We won't contribute anything because we don't believe S will ever HTF, but if it does we'll be knocking on your door.
2. 2 members seem to be financing the entire operation. It's quickly become a "from each according to his ability" operation.
3. Settling on standards. When we formed, the springfield XD was the chosen pistol, but as time wore on everyone somehow acquired HK USPs. Now 3 people are in a situation where they have the "group standard" but the majority of the group has moved on to bigger and better things (as the group expanded and took in family members). Ammunition? 55gr, 62gr....etc.
4. Distractions/finite resources. Most acutely seen with energy choices. Should we go with Solar? 20k+ longer term viability.. Propane generator run intermittently?$3k (we have the generator, this would be an extra 1000 gallon tank and fill) Mid-term (up to 1 year) Coal heating? Wood? Propane? etc. These debates have cost a lot of time and energy.

Excellent points all.

Trust and trusting members to do the agreed upon thing
Equality and by this I mean every member must make a significant contribution, no slackers, freeloaders, or cheapskates.
The ability to say NO to people, even family who just expect you to help them. This might mean emphasizing your NO with force.
Skillset crosstraining - some people will be naturally better at some things but everyone can learn a little of everything.

I'm sure I missed a few things.

Thank you for the insight Goodburbon.

[Wulf202]

my group pretty much dissolved because of the above issues. good points.

[Danimal]

This is something that I have put a lot of thought into and there is an end result. Basically there are two situations that you have to consider:

1) The economy / government has eroded and lost control. Crime is soaring but there is still commerce in one form or another. Essentially a wild west type of environment.

2) Complete social breakdown. No law, no morals, worst case scenario.

The first is honestly the most likely due to the current hoards of completely dependent people. In this scenario there is a chance for groups to form, but they are only going to be successful if they fall into one of two categories:

1) They are all like minded prepared members that respect and trust one another absolutely.

2) They have no other option for survival so they band together for strength in numbers.

The first is like an old west town, the second is a common street gang. Chances are these will be the two groups in competition for resources. There are combinations and other options, but this as far as I can tell is a fairly comprehensive breakdown. With that said, the only way that a group will survive is if their environment falls into the first category of both conditions. Other than that it will be impossible to keep people together for any length of time.

The only real reason to have a group is self defense. Trade / bartering can be conducted with anyone, provided you have the means of defending yourself and your property. The real threat is being overrun by a larger gang type group. Sure it would be nice to have someone that you trust to trade with, but on a long enough timeline you will have to venture out of your compound and trade with others, and for hunter gathering type activities.

But for me it all boils down to one absolute, and that is that you can only trust family. My family has had this mentality for some time now and everyone is diversifying into very specific skill sets. I am electrical / mechanical engineering, one brother is a physician, my dad is former special forces and great at killing stuff and my sister is a cultural anthropologist... (there is always one in every family that just doesn't get it.) We all hunt and shoot and we all prep as best as we can.

I still have a group of friends that I plan on banding together with in order to make an initial stand if need be, and to travel to my families planned meeting place (we all grew up together and our families live close). But I do not plan on having them be a formal part of my group. We will all protect our own families and work together as needed, but to attempt to form anything beyond a loose community is frivolous because everyone has their own priorities that will always come before your priorities. This is not to say that I would not help my friends and their families if they were in need, but to pre-establish a community will be a lot of wasted time when it falls apart.

After a certain point it becomes clear that planning can only go so far because the possible choices that you will encounter are too numerous and lead down too many diverging paths. The one thing that I would throw out there as the most important aspect of this whole topic is to have a planned meeting place for everyone in your family that you care about. Then they are individually responsible for ensuring that they have the means to get there. If you put enough preparation into this location everything else will fall into place as best as it can depending on the choices you make.

If we are lucky enough for only a short term loss of government / economic collapse then communities will form and there will be opportunity to redevelop society as we know it hopefully purging liberal ideals for a few generations. If that continues to fall into complete social breakdown you end up with a 5 seconds after situation where you can expect 80 - 90% of the people around you to die and that is something no group can handle and remain organized. No amount of preparation can change the path of a community subjected to that level of disaster. It will be all by the seat of your pants decisions that people will make because they have no other choice. The strong will live, the weak will die.

[keylay31]

Good conversations guys, this is exactly what I was hoping would develop. After thinking this through, you'd have to have family or buddies you've known for decades who have the same mindset and live close by. I think for most people, this isn't too feasible, and thus it would be an immediate family type of thing. I myself am not really a prepper, but probably should be. Finances often get in the way.

[Skully]

Good conversations guys, this is exactly what I was hoping would develop. After thinking this through, you'd have to have family or buddies you've known for decades who have the same mindset and live close by. ........

Same thoughts myself guys.

I have always been a planner, creating scenarios and thinking about how to or what plans would I do to cover whatever might get encountered. I am not paranoid I have always had a wild imagination and am a methodical planner. I am always thinking and day dreaming about what if this would happen, what would I do? This same thought has applied to my 4 wheeling hobby, I always carry spare parts and/ or tools needed in case of an emergency or just in case something broke. It has actually saved me from spending the night somewhere I did not want to.

Some of my current friends, if I ever mentioned random shit talk about this stuff they always make fun of me saying I am acting like one of those paranoid dooms-dayers. What could happen they say?!

Yeah what could happen, human history is riddled with end of era society and re-birth. Not to mention countless natural disaster we should all expect will eventually happen because we are overdue as scientists would say.

It would be nice to meet individuals of like thinking and come up with plans in case SHTF and be able to hold some form of organized civilized mini society. Currently my thoughts have been I have some basic preparations, run to the hills to remote area not many travel and look for others who had that much forethought as well and team up.

[Omicron]

Some of my current friends, if I ever mentioned random shit talk about this stuff they always make fun of me saying I am acting like one of those paranoid dooms-dayers. What could happen they say?!

Do ALL of your friends act like this? And is it when you bring it up in a group setting, or individually? There's a "group think" thing that often happens with people together, where one scoffing can be enough to make them all do it. I'd suggest you bring it up individually, then you're more apt to get a real read on who's with you and who isn't. Those that aren't can be ignored when it comes to prepping, and in fact, I'd never bring it up with them again - as those'll be the guys who'll remember your comments, and want to come mooch off you if SHTF.

For those that you identify that are of a like mind, cultivate them gradually. It may only be one or two at first, but eventually you may develop a network of like-minded individuals, which is more than you have today.

[Great-Kazoo]

I base a lot on comfort level, Trust falls in to this category. There are some i would suggest if needed to swing by IF things became worse, politics aside as the comfort level trumps their poly thoughts.
Mountains are out for running to. Get behind a dually with 5th wheel that busted an axle and your up shit's creek. Never mind how good physical shape you're in it's the others in the group i doubt are going to start humping gear over the peaks vs driving to them. Combine this with a short grow season vs the plains and your food sustainability once game animals become thinned, gets limited.

Power outages, natural disasters are always a possibility and having a good phone tree/ lines of communication is a must have for anyone.
Are there some i would include that are not too gun savvy, absolutely as their skill set trumps gun knowledge.

[Irving]

We're moving and we have already met the neighbors to the left of us and directly across the street from us. One has CCW and the other is looking to get one. Both are into hunting and fishing and prepping. I was given a full tour of the one guys house and he was very open with me. It is like moving next door to Jerrymc and Marlin (one is a retired electrician) or something. One guy has has a few fruit trees and his wife cans every year. Also, I have some type of RV on three sides of me.

I am really excited to move into an area where my immediate neighbors are so gung-ho about issues that I feel strongly about. Too bad it is just a small rental and we'll be moving once we find our own house. No HOA either.

We went over just to check the place out, and ended up staying for something like two hours getting introduced four different neighbors. We haven't even seen the inside of this house yet.

[HoneyBadger]

Some of my current friends, if I ever mentioned random shit talk about this stuff they always make fun of me saying I am acting like one of those paranoid dooms-dayers.

Speaking of getting people in the right mindset.... I made a HUGE step with my wife today! We had 2 evacuees staying at our house during the Waldo Canyon fire, and they literally just brought sleeping bags for 2 night and 3 days. (I hope it was eye-opening for them too!) They are gone now, but this morning my wife and I were talking about all the fires, the tropical storm in the south, the heatwave in the midwest, and the winds/power outage affecting much of the Northeast, including Washington DC where MSM is reporting that millions of people could be without power for 3-4 days. During all of this, I kind of jokingly said "Gosh, that sounds like a good reason to stock up on rice and bottled water!" and she replied with "yeah no kidding. Wanna pick some up next time you're at Costco?" For a moment I was floored and didn't know what to say, because she has always been very financially insecure and afraid to spend extra money on ANYTHING, let alone food that we don't need for the week. This is great! I just need to be careful not to go overboard or I'll lose her support in this one really quickly.



For you married fellers out there, are your wives totally onboard with your prepping or bug out plans? If so, how did you do it?

[Great-Kazoo]

Speaking of getting people in the right mindset.... I made a HUGE step with my wife today! We had 2 evacuees staying at our house during the Waldo Canyon fire, and they literally just brought sleeping bags for 2 night and 3 days. (I hope it was eye-opening for them too!) They are gone now, but this morning my wife and I were talking about all the fires, the tropical storm in the south, the heatwave in the midwest, and the winds/power outage affecting much of the Northeast, including Washington DC where MSM is reporting that millions of people could be without power for 3-4 days. During all of this, I kind of jokingly said "Gosh, that sounds like a good reason to stock up on rice and bottled water!" and she replied with "yeah no kidding. Wanna pick some up next time you're at Costco?" For a moment I was floored and didn't know what to say, because she has always been very financially insecure and afraid to spend extra money on ANYTHING, let alone food that we don't need for the week. This is great! I just need to be careful not to go overboard or I'll lose her support in this one really quickly.



For you married fellers out there, are your wives totally onboard with your prepping or bug out plans? If so, how did you do it?

Never needed to "get her on board" She has always been a gun friendly lady, who i think is still pissed after she found out i had been dipping in to ammo she thought was hers.Ask the board members who have had the opportunity meeting her. Her favorite saying is
"Without ammo all you have is an expensive paddle"