Any interest in an ACTS (2-Gun) Match in the area?

[cross]

I mentioned this in the "Looking for a few good People" thread in Front Range IDPA, and it was suggested I start a new thread to see if folks would be interested. I'm Jon, and I'm new to the area. I'm coming from Michigan where I was a boardmember for a club called ACTS. ACTS is a defensive 2 Gun style match, geared towards mil/le/civilian training junky types. It was our best effort to create a venue in which "real world" shooting was structured in a competitive format, somewhat along the lines of what IDPA was originally intended to do. We use a scoring system identical to IDPA, enforce actual use of cover vs. laying out boundaries, and encourage problem solving rather than more choreographed stages. It's still a gun game, but it's a format in which problem solving is as important as the shooting.

A few things that set it apart- "open" format for stages: many stage briefs are as simple as "on command, shooter will engage all threats with two or more rounds each". The goal here is to let the shooter choose positions of advantage, use movement and/or cover, and to solve the problem in whichever way they deem most efficient and practical.
-Hot transitions- we don't ground or table guns, if the primary goes down, the shooter is expected to reload, clear the malfunction, or transition to the secondary and drive on.
-Use of cover- we don't lay down boundaries typically, if more than half of the shooters own "zero zone" is exposed, they need to move or get behind cover. Depending on stage design, this may force using the weak hand/side to engage threats.
-Gear restrictions/allowances- we are a small club and tend to adapt quickly to changes in what is currently being used by mil/le shooters. Our goal is to avoid guns built specifically for games, and to keep the focus on fighting guns, issued guns, work guns, whatever you want to call them. We allow most of what is allowed for an open division 3 Gun rifle, but not all. We allow optics on handguns ONLY if they are milled or mounted to the slide (this was a result of certain SOF/SF units issuing Glocks set up this way as well as a number of LE agencies approving them for use- a lot of us have our carry guns set up this way as well). Gear has to be practical- we have specific wording to enforce this, but the general idea is that carry/duty gear is good to go, race gear is not.

These are just a few bits and pieces of what the format consists of. The goal of the organization was to embrace and foster the concept of a "nation of riflemen". The matches are in no way training, but they could fairly be described as a venue in which training can be correctly applied in a competitive format, ie good practice. The biggest advantage that I've personally seen is in the community. I started shooting the matches shortly after my first deployment. I had never been exposed to the methods and techniques that Army or LE units were employing. The round table discussions amongst like minded shooters from a variety of training and work experiences were priceless, and worth the time and cost of making it out to the matches and then some. After the club gained some steam, it was a regular stop for nationally recognized trainers, SWAT cops, Marines, Soldiers, and long-retired veterans as well as civilians simply looking to work on fundamentals they had picked up at classes or to just hang out with a good group of like minded individuals.

IF there is interest in setting up a match or two somewhere in the area, I'm happy to take the lead. I've MD'd several of the MI matches and would love the opportunity to do so again. Having said that, ACTS, just like any other shooting sport, is volunteer driven. It could not be a success without plenty of folks willing to help out and put some time and effort into ROing, setting up, tearing down, etc... At this point, I don't even know if there's a local range interested in hosting an ACTS match, let alone a solid base of volunteers to make it happen. IF there is interest, IF there is infrastructure, and IF there is support, I'll do whatever I can to help make it a success. If you have any thoughts, any questions, or any opinions about any of this, feel free to email me or just post up here- I'll do my best to check back often. It would take a fair bit of effort and help to pull it off, but if folks are interested, it's well worth it!

For additional information, links to the rulebook, and the forum, the website address is www.actshooters.com

And just to throw in a quick caveat in case this is coming across as a sales pitch- ACTS is non profit. I'm not trying to sell anything, and noone generates income or profit from this. The only thing that any of us would gain is another great option in addition to the IDPA, 3 gun, and USPSA matches available in the area.

[asmo]

Okay I'm interested. There are some things I am reading on the ACTS site that do not sit well with me (the whole scenario thing - carjacking terrorist, save your kids, etc.) but I am willing to give it a try. I got out of high power rifle shooting many many years ago due to all the gaming - and after going to Mark's Intro to 3-Gun class I can see that the whole thing there is how to game the game.

I'm not an RO and my range doesnt allow such things. But I'm interested and willing to travel to a 'nearby' (Ft. Collins to Pueblo) range to try it out.

Let me know what I could do to help make it happen. Possibly do it as a side match at one of the existing 3 Gun competitions to get people interested in the concept.

[ray1970]

Sounds like a good time. Unfortunately I just don't have the time to get out and do stuff like this. I imagine if you started this up your turn out would grow at each new match.

Good luck.

[Blowby]

Good to see life in Boulder turning for the better. Never competed but I did attend the 3 gun class last Friday so I was able to get a glimpse of the sport. All of my training has been non gaming so this is new to me but I'm open to anything that offers a new perspective on firearm use. The more you stay behind the gun and operate it the better your skill set becomes. Keep us posted I could help and participate and let us know when and where your first event will be.

[Irving]

I would love for this to be my next step up from IDPA. I just currently do not own a rifle. Sorry for the quasi-interest response.
I have a few questions about the rules as well.

Magazines loaded into a sidearm prior to beginning a COF are subject to a maximum overall length of 6.5 inches measured (unloaded) along the back of the magazine using the longest dimension from top to bottom. This restriction does not apply to magazines loaded during a COF.

Is this only for pistols, or are AR/AK 30-round magazines within this length?

[CHA-LEE]

Why not simply participate in the exiting matches all across the Colorado Front range? Your location shows you in Boulder, the Boulder Rifle Club hosts two "IDPAish" type matches each month. One is a pistol only match that is done on the indoor range the first Friday of each month. The second is a multi gun type of match that is done on the third Saturday of each month.

These matches are right up your alley when compared to your ACTS match description. That and they are right in your back yard. Check out the Boulder Rifle Club website for more details on these matches.

Colorado has a boat load of practical shooting style matches all along the Colorado front range every month. We have existing USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge, Bianchi, Multi Gun, 3-Gun, SASS, ICORE, and home grown IDPAish style matches being hosted all month long. You can literally shoot a match somewhere every weekend day and quite a few week days every single month. Do we really need to create yet another match?

I say we support the current shooting disciplines we already have available instead of trying to create yet another match.

[Hoser]

Why not simply participate in the exiting matches all across the Colorado Front range?

I agree 100%.

There is nothing from stopping you from going to a USPSA/IPSC or 3-gun match and shooting it defensively or using whatever pistol you want.

Many people say they are just "Shooting against myself" but get all pissed off when their firearm of choice puts them in a division they dont want to be in.

Trigger pressing is trigger pressing.

[thermobollocks]

The only thing that any of us would gain is another great option in addition to the IDPA, 3 gun, and USPSA matches available in the area.

This is pretty much my takeaway. Yes, trigger time is trigger time, but if you bring an open gun to an IDPA match, you may not have much to say to the other shooters beyond "can I get some tape?" and "here's some brass for you." I'm glad to shoot whatever with whoever, but there's a ton of value in getting folks together who want to play gun games the same way you do.
(Full disclosure: I sit on ass for a living and can't really care too much as long as the rules are the same for everyone)

If enough people show up to keep it running smoothly and I can fit it into my copious amounts of free time, I'm down.

[CHA-LEE]

Realistically, if any new match isn't going to bring at least 20 shooters on a regular basis, it is a waste of everyone's time. You would be better off setting up "Practice Sessions" with stages you want to shoot then shoot them any way you want with whatever you want.

The thing that irks me about these kind of threads "Hay, lets start a new match" is that 99.999999999% of the time the people pitching the new match don't even participate in the glutton of existing matches. Before you charge off reinventing the wheel at least see if there is an existing wheel that will work.