Do you oppose Senate Bill 13-195? If so, why?

[Bailey Guns]

I don't get the issuing point... no. While it would be awesome... I don't see it necessary or plausible. There are lots of classes we take in school, like the two I mentioned (shop and home ec) that require a physical hands on presence with the items without schools having to issue you those items for you to keep afterwards. You don't get a car to keep in shop, you don't get a stove to keep in home ec, you don't keep your Bunsen burners and beakers in chemistry, you don't keep your M4 from firearms class. You have to have them in the classroom for class... but they don't pay for and give you these things to take home with you to keep. That is your own responsibility. Not everyone who takes home ec may want a stove... don't force one on 'em. Not everyone who takes firearms classes in school may want an M4 (though I sure would) so don't force it on 'em. It doesn't make economic sense to issue them. The whole lifetime supply of ammo? BG was just being a smart ass... not furthering my argument. I'm sure you can see that. I was trying to make a serious point and have a serious discussion. That is tough for some people to do, apparently.

I wasn't "just" being a smartass. I was pointing out that, as long as we're dreaming about a perfect world (in terms of training our children in schools as you suggested...which ain't gonna happen) we might as well carry it a little further. When I'm "just" being a smartass, you'll know.

[brobar]

I wasn't "just" being a smartass. I was pointing out that, as long as we're dreaming about a perfect world (in terms of training our children in schools as you suggested...which ain't gonna happen) we might as well carry it a little further. When I'm "just" being a smartass, you'll know.

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly.

[DHC]

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly.

Right at this time, with a critical Senate vote coming TOMORROW - there is a serious question about dedicating energy to a hypothetical with almost ZERO chance of ever happening.

For your suggestion of mandated firearm training in school to be considered, there would need to first be widespread acceptance of the need for such training. That is the reason I referenced cstone's post about procreation - and procreation leading to mandated sex education.

Do you really think the prerequisite of UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE that our youth need firearm training has a glimpse of a chance of happening?

[cstone]

With homeschooling, my wife and I chose our children's curriculum.

Because I know of no public school system anywhere in this country that would accept it, I would never try to get them to accept credit for firearms instruction. Let's face it. In today's public school system, children are suspended for nibbling a pop tart gun and pointing at other children.

I would tell anyone I chose to that I was giving my kids an advanced education in physics with practical applications in ballistics, meteorology, and gravitational influence on bodies in motion.

[Bailey Guns]

This was your first post:

I understand where all of those who say "it is our right... you don't need to train for a right" are coming from. And on principal... I agree. However, I have seen tons of people handle and operate a firearm at the range and the thought of them concealed carrying scares the bejeezus out of me. Sweeping everyone in the range, finger on the trigger, just bad, awful, pisspoor discipline. I know, I know... they have just as much and every right to carry as you and I do. But good lord, I am not opposed to them getting some training and learning how to properly handle and operate a firearm. I also know a lot of people who don't have the proper mindeset and temperament for carrying a firearm. Myself... I had a much different mindset before I took my concealed carry class. So I stand on the side that there is LOTS of value in taking a good CCW course. If we don't care about people getting some good, proper training before hand... I guess we can always discipline them AFTER they make a fatal mistake. But I see where people on both sides of the fence are coming from.

Then this:

Yeah... a lot of people getting their panties in a wad while getting off topic. The topic wasn't whether or not you think you should have to take a class to carry a firearm. The topic was whether or not if the class you have to take should be in person or if you should be able to take it online. When it comes to taking a firearms course... I'm on the side of I think you should or would desire to take it in person. Cost, laziness, stubbornness aside... I don't understand why people wouldn't want to get hands on when it comes to firearms. It doesn't make much sense to me. I liken it to wanting to become a race car driver but not wanting to actually drive the car on the track... a pamphlet or a video game would appease you. I just find it odd... that's all.

Then this:

I'm not exactly sure what it is you think "us guys" want. My position is... if you are going to be doing firearms training... I'm not sure why anyone would really want to not get hands on and up-close and personal in that training. It has nothing to do with the government, big government or anything else for that matter. All I've said is I find it out that people would rather sit in front of a computer than get out and get hands on with the training they have to take. I guess with today's video-game generation... it somewhat makes sense. But I find range time MUCH more enjoyable than Call of Duty on the XBOX. Maybe that is just me.

Then this. How the fuck is anyone supposed to get that what you wrote below is what you meant from your earlier posts? Your earlier posts never mentioned anything remotely resembling starting firearms training in schools...I guess everyone was just supposed to figure that out.

Well I know my line of thinking is too extreme for a lot of the people here. I think EVERYONE should have firearms training... proof of that training if they are going to carry... and I think that training should start in the schools from a very young age starting with the Eddie the Eagle program. Math, science, history, firearms... it should be standard coursework. Why do you guys know that 2+2=4? Because you learned it in school. Why can't people learn that all guns are loaded, keep the finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot, how to properly handle, shoot, manipulate, store, work on, fix, troubleshoot, marksmanship fundamentals, advanced marksmanship, etc... in our schools and universities? If you make firearms training part of the curriculum, you won't have people whining about distance, price, vacation days, no Internet, etc...

Yes I think ALL people should be trained with firearms. Yes I think it should start when they are young and remain a part of the offered curriculum all the way through college. Extreme? Yea... so what!

If you have people learning about and getting trained with firearms at a young age... then maybe there wouldn't be so much fear and ignorance surrounding firearms when people get older. I was listening to a professor on the radio the other day talking about a safety course that he had to take at the university and when they were passing around ammo... some of the other faculty didn't want to even touch it without a tissue!!! Ignorance! Ignorance and irrational fear come from a lack of training and familiarity. Lets get that out of people at a young age before they are too far down the rabbit hole!

I'd suggest that the anger management course "is looking for you!"

Now who's being the smartass?

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly

I get it now. Your kinda like one of those "pro-gun liberals" I hear about. You're all for the 2A and individual freedoms as long as they don't make you all uncomfortable.

[brobar]

Right at this time, with a critical Senate vote coming TOMORROW - there is a serious question about dedicating energy to a hypothetical with almost ZERO chance of ever happening.

For your suggestion of mandated firearm training in school to be considered, there would need to first be widespread acceptance of the need for such training. That is the reason I referenced cstone's post about procreation - and procreation leading to mandated sex education.

Do you really think the prerequisite of UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE that our youth need firearm training has a glimpse of a chance of happening?

Not with the attitude that I see some people approaching it with... no... not a chance in hell. That is why I said it is TOO EXTREME for people on here. I'm of the mindset that rights are not without responsibilities and actions are not without consequences... crazy talk... right? So I think people should be taught, about those responsibilities and the consequences that come along with being irresponsible, at a young age! People don't like that kind of thinking. Let's stop talking about it and change the subject by acting all silly. I know exactly where we stand today and yes, you are right, with people's mindset today... there is not a glimpse of that happening. We should probably just shut up about it and not even discuss it.

how about that snow (or lack thereof) we got yesterday?

[cysoto]

How can a person connected to a business that offers firearms training be the least bit objective about this?

If making money was my motivation, I would strongly oppose Senate Bill 13-195. Having people watch a 30 minute on-line video and answer a handful of questions requires zero effort on my part. Even if I was $10 per person, I would make a lot more money than holding an in-person class.

In the end, this is not a matter of "how much money a business owner can make"; it's a matter of whether or not a person looking to apply for a CCW can learn anything from an on-line course or not.

[DavieD55]

Yes, this is a stupid piece of legislation that does nothing to stop or prevent crime... How does WY, AZ, AK, and VT handle this...

[DHC]

If making money was my motivation, I would strongly oppose Senate Bill 13-195. Having people watch a 30 minute on-line video and answer a handful of questions requires zero effort on my part. Even if I was $10 per person, I would make a lot more money than holding an in-person class.

In the end, this is not a matter of "how much money a business owner can make"; it's a matter of whether or not a person looking to apply for a CCW can learn anything from an on-line course or not.

Not all people absorb materials from training in the same way. Some people learn better with experiential training. Some people learn better with a traditional classroom setting. Some people learn better by self-study. Some people learn better with having a 'talking head' in the classroom. There simply is not a 'one-size-fits-all' when it comes to training. Other factors in determining an optimal training venue include things like a full-time job, along with family considerations. There are so many variations that it only makes sense to me that the person taking the course should be able to make whatever selection works best FOR THEM.

As always - just my POV.

[dwalker460]

Not with the attitude that I see some people approaching it with... no... not a chance in hell. That is why I said it is TOO EXTREME for people on here. I'm of the mindset that rights are not without responsibilities and actions are not without consequences... crazy talk... right? So I think people should be taught, about those responsibilities and the consequences that come along with being irresponsible, at a young age! People don't like that kind of thinking. Let's stop talking about it and change the subject by acting all silly. I know exactly where we stand today and yes, you are right, with people's mindset today... there is not a glimpse of that happening. We should probably just shut up about it and not even discuss it.

how about that snow (or lack thereof) we got yesterday?

Your a complete idiot.

Do I agree that firearms training should happen? Sure. I think every parent should teach thier kids to shoot. IN FACT, I believe that we should pass a LAW requiring every single parent- including gay, lesbian, tranny, or undecided- to teach any children in their care how to properly use firearms. Further, we should test and grade these skills on a pass/fail system. Fail, and the kid gets taken away and placed with a parent that CAN teach children the proper use and respect of firearms.