Do you oppose Senate Bill 13-195? If so, why?

[brobar]

Well that's a far cry from what you posted earlier. And as long as we're dreaming, we might as well all get gov't issued M4 rifles with a lifetime supply of free ammo.

How so? I said I feel everyone should get in-classroom hands on training. I didn't go so far as to elaborate when, where or how. I said I couldn't understand why some would prefer to do it in a digital format if hands-on, live-fire training was available. I said it didn't make much sense (to me). However... the more I think about generations today... I guess I could see why some people would prefer it.

And what is with the issuing of M4's and ammo comment? When you take shop class... do you get issued a car and tools to take home with you to keep? When you take home ec... do you get issued sewing machines with a lifetime supply of thread and a gas range oven with a lifetime supply of self-rising flour?

[DHC]

How so? I said I feel everyone should get in-classroom hands on training. I didn't go so far as to elaborate when, where or how. I said I couldn't understand why some would prefer to do it in a digital format if hands-on, live-fire training was available. I said it didn't make much sense (to me). However... the more I think about generations today... I guess I could see why some people would prefer it.

And what is with the issuing of M4's and ammo comment? When you take shop class... do you get issued a car and tools to take home with you to keep? When you take home ec... do you get issued sewing machines with a lifetime supply of thread and a gas range oven with a lifetime supply of self-rising flour?

Your responses seem to cast things in a very narrow frame of reference. Ex. your explanation of a generational difference to explain the POV's different from your own seems, well, a bit simplistic - IMO, of course.

As I read BG's response to your post, he was (I believe) merely carrying your argument to a further point in your own logic path. For there to be a mandate for universal gun training, there would need to be universal acceptance of gun exposure. i.e. using cstone's procreation reference - the very reason there is now a universal mandate for sex education (under the euphemism of 'health' education) is due to the universal acceptance that our youth are going to be exposed to sex. Your argument follows that example as a direct parallel - EXCEPT - there is no universal acceptance of gun exposure. If there were such universal acceptance - then your suggestion of mandated training in school makes sense - as does BG's comment about M4 issuance.

Make sense now?

[brobar]

Your responses seem to cast things in a very narrow frame of reference. Ex. your explanation of a generational difference to explain the POV's different from your own seems, well, a bit simplistic - IMO, of course.

As I read BG's response to your post, he was (I believe) merely carrying your argument to a further point in your own logic path. For there to be a mandate for universal gun training, there would need to be universal acceptance of gun exposure. i.e. using cstone's procreation reference - the very reason there is now a universal mandate for sex education (under the euphemism of 'health' education) is due to the universal acceptance that our youth are going to be exposed to sex. Your argument follows that example as a direct parallel - EXCEPT - there is no universal acceptance of gun exposure. If there were such universal acceptance - then your suggestion of mandated training in school makes sense - as does BG's comment about M4 issuance.

Make sense now?

I don't get the issuing point... no. While it would be awesome... I don't see it necessary or plausible. There are lots of classes we take in school, like the two I mentioned (shop and home ec) that require a physical hands on presence with the items without schools having to issue you those items for you to keep afterwards. You don't get a car to keep in shop, you don't get a stove to keep in home ec, you don't keep your Bunsen burners and beakers in chemistry, you don't keep your M4 from firearms class. You have to have them in the classroom for class... but they don't pay for and give you these things to take home with you to keep. That is your own responsibility. Not everyone who takes home ec may want a stove... don't force one on 'em. Not everyone who takes firearms classes in school may want an M4 (though I sure would) so don't force it on 'em. It doesn't make economic sense to issue them. The whole lifetime supply of ammo? BG was just being a smart ass... not furthering my argument. I'm sure you can see that. I was trying to make a serious point and have a serious discussion. That is tough for some people to do, apparently.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't get the issuing point... no. While it would be awesome... I don't see it necessary or plausible. There are lots of classes we take in school, like the two I mentioned (shop and home ec) that require a physical hands on presence with the items without schools having to issue you those items for you to keep afterwards. You don't get a car to keep in shop, you don't get a stove to keep in home ec, you don't keep your Bunsen burners and beakers in chemistry, you don't keep your M4 from firearms class. You have to have them in the classroom for class... but they don't pay for and give you these things to take home with you to keep. That is your own responsibility. Not everyone who takes home ec may want a stove... don't force one on 'em. Not everyone who takes firearms classes in school may want an M4 (though I sure would) so don't force it on 'em. It doesn't make economic sense to issue them. The whole lifetime supply of ammo? BG was just being a smart ass... not furthering my argument. I'm sure you can see that. I was trying to make a serious point and have a serious discussion. That is tough for some people to do, apparently.

I wasn't "just" being a smartass. I was pointing out that, as long as we're dreaming about a perfect world (in terms of training our children in schools as you suggested...which ain't gonna happen) we might as well carry it a little further. When I'm "just" being a smartass, you'll know.

[brobar]

I wasn't "just" being a smartass. I was pointing out that, as long as we're dreaming about a perfect world (in terms of training our children in schools as you suggested...which ain't gonna happen) we might as well carry it a little further. When I'm "just" being a smartass, you'll know.

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly.

[DHC]

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly.

Right at this time, with a critical Senate vote coming TOMORROW - there is a serious question about dedicating energy to a hypothetical with almost ZERO chance of ever happening.

For your suggestion of mandated firearm training in school to be considered, there would need to first be widespread acceptance of the need for such training. That is the reason I referenced cstone's post about procreation - and procreation leading to mandated sex education.

Do you really think the prerequisite of UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE that our youth need firearm training has a glimpse of a chance of happening?

[brobar]

Right at this time, with a critical Senate vote coming TOMORROW - there is a serious question about dedicating energy to a hypothetical with almost ZERO chance of ever happening.

For your suggestion of mandated firearm training in school to be considered, there would need to first be widespread acceptance of the need for such training. That is the reason I referenced cstone's post about procreation - and procreation leading to mandated sex education.

Do you really think the prerequisite of UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE that our youth need firearm training has a glimpse of a chance of happening?

Not with the attitude that I see some people approaching it with... no... not a chance in hell. That is why I said it is TOO EXTREME for people on here. I'm of the mindset that rights are not without responsibilities and actions are not without consequences... crazy talk... right? So I think people should be taught, about those responsibilities and the consequences that come along with being irresponsible, at a young age! People don't like that kind of thinking. Let's stop talking about it and change the subject by acting all silly. I know exactly where we stand today and yes, you are right, with people's mindset today... there is not a glimpse of that happening. We should probably just shut up about it and not even discuss it.

how about that snow (or lack thereof) we got yesterday?

[Goodburbon]

I think it is pretty apparent what you were doing. It comes across just like those who say "oh the 2A says you can have an AR... why don't you just get a tank while you are at it!"

I said the point was extreme. And I was right... so extreme, people can't even discuss it without getting all silly.

The 2A does say that you can have a tank.

[Rucker61]

The 2A does say that you can have a tank.

It's the Mrs. and the HOA parking restrictions that say "No".