on my phone I can't. expect a large reply tonight. also can't load fema link
Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums
Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
on my phone I can't. expect a large reply tonight. also can't load fema link
10-4 Wulf, thanks.
I don't know about you, but my water in Broomfield leaves a pretty good bit of sediment residue on my faucets and shower heads. It looks like calcium or lime deposits or something. Kind of a white/green tint to it. I drink water from a filter in my fridge, but rarely from the tap. The times I have, it tastes fine, but I figure I'll still pre-filter the stuff I fill my storage containers with. Unless of course I'm filling them in a hurry.
The white is calcium and the green tint is copper. You can get your water tested to determine your exact minerals so you can counter the effects.
FEMA states that stored water should only be kept for 6 months before changing out unless it was commercially made as they use different ways to make shelf life longer.
Some stored water will get a sulfur smell in less than 2 months. This is from hydrogen sulfide/sulfates. Well water from either shallow or deep wells can contain the sulfur.(primarily found in shale and sandstone deposits--like most of Colorado) If you are using a municipal water supply there is chlorine added that will reduce this. Well water will need to be chlorinated before storage. 1 to 2 drops per gallon is sufficient. Don't forget that containers need to be food grade and sanitized as well.
Potential Side Effects from Sulfer/Sulfate:
Sulfate
Sulfate may have a laxative effect that can lead to dehydration and is of special concern for infants. With time, people and young livestock will become acclimated to the sulfate and the symptoms disappear. Sulfur-oxidizing bacteria pose no known human health risk. The Maximum contaminate level is 250 mg/L.
I say lets all remove the warning labels and let nature take its course.
FEMA
There is no expiration of commercially available bottled water.How Should I Store Water?
To prepare safest and most reliable emergency supply of water, it is recommended you purchase commercially bottled water. Keep bottled water in its original container and do not open it until you need to use it.
Observe the expiration or “use by” date.
DO NOT BUY USED CONTAINERS, you don't know what they've been used with. Use glass if you want to deal with the down sides. You don't need to rinse out the sanitizer.If You are Preparing Your Own Containers of Water
It is recommended you purchase food-grade water storage containers from surplus or camping supplies stores to use for water storage. Before filling with water, thoroughly clean the containers with dishwashing soap and water, and rinse completely so there is no residual soap. Follow directions below on filling the container with water.
If you choose to use your own storage containers, choose two-liter plastic soft drink bottles – not plastic jugs or cardboard containers that have had milk or fruit juice in them. Milk protein and fruit sugars cannot be adequately removed from these containers and provide an environment for bacterial growth when water is stored in them. Cardboard containers also leak easily and are not designed for long-term storage of liquids. Also, do not use glass containers, because they can break and are heavy.
If storing water in plastic soda bottles, follow these steps
Thoroughly clean the bottles with dishwashing soap and water, and rinse completely so there is no residual soap.Sanitize the bottles by adding a solution of 1 teaspoon of non-scented liquid household chlorine bleach to a quart of water. Swish the sanitizing solution in the bottle so that it touches all surfaces. After sanitizing the bottle, thoroughly rinse out the sanitizing solution with clean water.
You can skip the chlorine step if you don't dump out the sanitizer. If you get water from ANY water treatment facility it's gonna be fine. You do not need to change out the water ever.Filling Water Containers
Fill the bottle to the top with regular tap water. If the tap water has been commercially treated from a water utility with chlorine, you do not need to add anything else to the water to keep it clean. If the water you are using comes from a well or water source that is not treated with chlorine, add two drops of non-scented liquid household chlorine bleach to the water.Tightly close the container using the original cap. Be careful not to contaminate the cap by touching the inside of it with your finger. Place a date on the outside of the container so that you know when you filled it. Store in a cool, dark place.Replace the water every six months if not using commercially bottled water.
LDS much better than FEMA, not that I'm surprised
Look at the bottom of your containers for the triangle with a number in it. Do not reuse #3 or #6 bottles. The old Nalgalene bottles are actually #3. The bleach warnings are correct, and should have been explained in the FEMA one.Water Storage
Commercially bottled water in PETE (or PET) plastic containers may be purchased. Follow the container’s “best if used by” dates as a rotation guideline. Avoid plastic containers that are not PETE plastic.
If you choose to package water yourself, consider the following guidelines:
Containers
Use only food-grade containers. Smaller containers made of PETE plastic or heavier plastic buckets or drums work well.
Clean, sanitize, and thoroughly rinse all containers prior to use. A sanitizing solution can be prepared by adding 5 ml (1 teaspoon) of liquid household chlorine bleach (5 to 6% sodium hypochlorite) to 1 liter (one quart) of water. Only household bleach without thickeners, scents, or additives should be used.
Do not reuse any containers that have had oils fats or milk products in them. Bleaching not necessary for treated water, especially if you leave the sanitizing solution in the bottle you already complete this step.Do not use plastic milk jugs, because they do not seal well and tend to become brittle over time.
Do not use containers previously used to store non-food products.
Water Pretreatment
Water from a chlorinated municipal water supply does not need further treatment when stored in clean, food-grade containers.
Non-chlorinated water should be treated with bleach. Add 8 drops of liquid household chlorine bleach (5 to 6% sodium hypochlorite) for every 4 liters (one gallon) of water. Only household bleach without thickeners, scents, or additives should be used.
Storage
Once it's been set up you can leave the water as is. The "taste" is water going flat you can aerate the water in plenty of ways, pouring it back and forth a few times does not much for flat water.Containers should be emptied and refilled regularly.
Store water only where potential leakage would not damage your home or apartment.
Protect stored water from light and heat. Some containers may also require protection from freezing.
The taste of stored water can be improved by pouring it back and forth between two containers before use.
Water Purification
If your water supply is not known to be safe or has become polluted, it should be purified before use. Water purification is generally a two-step process.
Not a must.Step 1: Clarify
Cloudy or dirty water must first be made clear. It should be passed through filter paper, fine cloth, or some other filter. It should be allowed to settle, and then the clear water on top can be carefully drawn. Filtered or clear settled water should always be disinfected before use.
Boiling water for ANY amount of time will kill microorganisms, in fact boiling is a waste of fuel, you only need to get it to 165 degrees. EDIT : for immediate consumption or short term storage.Step 2: Disinfect
Boiling Method
Bringing water to a rolling boil for 3 to 5 minutes will kill most water-borne microorganisms. However, prolonged boiling of small quantities of water may concentrate toxic contaminants if present.
Bleach Method
Adding 8 drops of fresh liquid household chlorine bleach (5 to 6% sodium hypochlorite) to every 4 liters (one gallon) of water will kill most microorganisms. Only household bleach without thickeners, scents, or additives should be used. The use of bleach does not address toxic contamination.
Commercial Water Filters
Commercial water filters can effectively filter and purify water contaminated with microorganisms, toxic chemicals, and heavy metals. Their effectiveness depends on design, condition, and proper use.
You can make your own bleach with calcium hypochlorite powder and substitute with the store bought bleach.
There's alot more treatment methods, you need to be educated as to what the risks are with the original water.
Last edited by Wulf202; 05-09-2012 at 19:56.
How long is the water with Chlorine good for? Mine is a couple of years old. May be time to drain and refill.
What are your feelings on using iodine vs. bleach ?Originally Posted by Wulf202
The Great Kazoo's Feedback
"when you're happy you enjoy the melody but, when you're broken you understand the lyrics".
Wulf, How much and where/when is your water classes you mention... I am very much interested in attending to see if I am doing things properly.
However, I have/plan on further treating my stored water when/if i need them.
My current process:
- Save 2-liter soft drink bottles as I use them.
- When I do homebrewing at home I use my left over sanitizer (Star-San)to sanitize the clean 2-liter bottles, and immediately fill/seal the bottles with Aurora Tap water.
- Stack the bottles in a cool-dry crawlspace under the house using repurposed 2-liter bottle plastic trays that hold 8.
Well iodine is useful but kills far less than bleach (cyclosporine especially), It's multitool however, great for people with kids or in a bob as a backup treatment to a filter and also for foot ailments like fungus, minor cut treatments instrument sterilizing etc. Something where ounces count I'd take iodine over bleach.
Having said that I HATE iodine water. I mean I fucking hate the stuff, it makes my stomach quench just thinking about it. The anti iodine tabs they sell for a few bucks are just vitamin C. 50mg of vitamin C added to the water after the iodine has done it's job works great to remove the taste, Emergen C packets or chewable tabs divided down and crushed into the water leave no taste.
You can also run into an un diagnosed Iodine allergy if you are in a group. Iodine and shellfish are not mutually inclusive allergies. Also those with thyroid problems may not deal well with iodine treated water, and if you can convince a kid to drink iodine water I'd be impressed.
Here's the formula for treating with different types of common Iodine;
Iodine Tincture & Iodine Topical Solution 2% 8 drops/liter.
Lugol's Solution 5% 4 drops/liter. *
Povidone-Iodine (Betadine®) 10% 4 drops/liter.
Tetraglycine hydroperiodide (Globaline®, Potable Aqua®, EDWGT®) 8 mg 1 tablet/liter
*Lugol's Solution also contains 10% potassium iodide, increasing the dose of iodine ingested. (yes the same stuff they sell in anti radiation tabs)
Potable Aqua is honestly the worst tasting and looking of all the iodine treatments. Lugols has an extra stomach quenching problem for me.
Quoting Cody Lundin's book, If it looks like light beer and tastes like it will choke a camel that's enough Iodine.
In short Iodine for on the move and bleach for bug in.
As above if it's still sealed and out of direct light it's fine.
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=52612
Last class thread was lost in the crash, pretty much the same as this one except people showed up
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=45217
Your process is fine as long as you don't open them it'll be good for a few decades, it may go flat and taste mildly of soda though. If you go for clear 2 liters they can be used as SODIS treatment later on if you have to.
Apparently i may be instructing or a "consultant" soon... still in negotiations.
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