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  1. #1
    Door Kicker Mick-Boy's Avatar
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    Default LWRC or How I learned to stop worrying and shoot DI guns

    Since the purpose of message boards is to share information, I decided to write this post after a couple of discussions about LWRCs as duty rifles.

    When I started where I work, the 416 was the issue SBR. As the rifles were used and parts wore out we started having problems sourcing components. The combination of proprietary everything and HKs disdain for their customer base made getting new bolt and trigger group parts a giant PITA. When the HKs neared the end of their service life we replaced the 416s with LWRCs.

    The LWRCs showed up in country a little over two years ago. We received a mix of eight and ten inch uppers on LWRC select fire lowers. Prior to turning in our old rifles I took my team out to the range with 10 of the new guns. Our intention was to run at least 300 rounds through each gun to ensure they functioned reliably. This was going to be the first of 3 trips that we planned before turning in our HKs and issuing the LWRCs. We were using a mix of Emags, Pmags, HK steel mags and USGI aluminum mags. The ammo was a mixture of M855, M855a1, Mk262 mod 1, and X135.

    Over the course of the day we identified 4 of the 10 rifles with out of spec chambers which caused repeated failures to extract. In some cases it could be cleared by “mortaring” the rifle on the deck. One rifle required the casings to be knocked out with cleaning rods. In addition 5 of the 10 rifles had lower receivers with improperly cut disconnectors. This problem cause inadvertent 2-3 round bursts while the rifle was on semi-auto and the occasional discharged round when the trigger was reset. When we approached LWRC we were told it was most likely an operator issue.

    After some yoga and meditation (so I didn’t feel the need to light someone on fire) I sent the rifles back to my boss. He confirmed the issues and sent the rifles from my team and two others (all experiencing the same problems) back to the states where he hand carried them to LWRC to demonstrate the problem. Upon demonstration and examination, LWRC agreed that the rifles were faulty and fixed the problems. We got the rifles back and they now seem to be working.

    In addition to the problems with the 5.56 guns, we recently sent back several REPRs that wouldn’t feed reliably. After a little research I discovered that this is a known issue at LWRC. Instead of contacting people who purchased rifles in the identified serial number range and making them aware of the problem, LWRC chose to handle the complaints as they came in. As someone who was supposed to use this rifle overseas, I’m annoyed by that decision.

    Finally, I personally own two 10.5in uppers from LWRC. I purchased them and set them up as stand-ins for my work rifle. I use them when I train in the US. One of these uppers has run like a top for just over 25k documented rounds. I’m re-barreling it when I get home. The other upper cracked the gas block after less than 2k rounds. LWRC replaced it after some back and forth.

    Conclusion –

    If you’re using the rifle for range trips and you have money to burn, give LWRC a try. If it doesn’t work, they’ll make it right eventually. If you are looking for a gun to use for duty/HD, stick to a proven platform like BCM, LMT or Colt. Cool guy factor just isn’t worth rolling the dice on an LWRC product. Their QC has been too hit or miss for me to give them a go.
    Last edited by Mick-Boy; 09-07-2012 at 10:08. Reason: Edited to clarify a couple of points.
    Mick-Boy

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  2. #2
    Varmiteer Kaiser.Shooter's Avatar
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    Interesting write up.

    Please take a look at the adcor bear : http://www.adcorindustries.com/wordp....php/products/

    I like the idea of the forward charging option and dust wiper/cover.

  3. #3
    Door Kicker Mick-Boy's Avatar
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    Kaiser.shooter,

    At the end of the day, I don't want the term "revolutionary new design" attached to a duty/HD rifle. I don't want "works great once X% get sent back to the manufacturer to be reworked". I definitely don't want "Works great until you can't get new bolts after 10k through the gun".

    I want something that I can take out of the box, zero, and have work consistently for a long time with simple end user care and maintenance.

    When I'm at work this needs to be true over a large scale because there are going to be teams using these tools to to give bad smelly men the good news.

    Until Adcor has supplied hundreds of rifles that function over thousands of rounds *I* wouldn't give them a second glance as a duty or HD rifle. They are too untested for me to spend my money on them and WAY too untested for me to advocate spending gov't funds on them for duty use.
    Mick-Boy

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  4. #4
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    That sums up most opinions on pistons ARs: hit or miss and brand name doesn't really play a factor. I've been lucky with my PWS but I haven't had to order parts from overseas and I haven't put my life behind that gun. When using something for work, I've always embrased the concept of "use what is proven to work, not what you think will work." I think that adage fits well here. I also think that we've spent enought time cleaning ARs that we know how to get it done as expediently as possible and a decent pair of gloves mitigates any heat issue. Glad to see you get to properly vet your gear before running it on the road; you must have less pencil pushing management than I.

    Stay Safe.

  5. #5
    BIG PaPa ray1970's Avatar
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    Nice write up. I love seeing what people have to say about things when they actually have real world experience and a little common sense.

    Thanks.

  6. #6
    Varmiteer Kaiser.Shooter's Avatar
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    BCM,LMT or Colt indeed can't go wrong.
    Any thoughts on Noveske? Seems like all ar guys got zombied by Noveske

  7. #7
    The Red Belly TheBelly's Avatar
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    Excellent write-up.

    Mick, I still appreciate your help with my project.

  8. #8
    Paper Hunter
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    Yeah, these types of write ups always remind me that there are two very different worlds in the gun community. There is the "I like this fun new toy to play with at the range" and there is the "my life depends on how this piece of equipment functions." An individual buying gear to use on sunny range days is a little different than buying gear for hundreds of guys to use on a two way range. Certainly the "do I trust my life to this gear" question has changed some of my purchases.

  9. #9
    Door Kicker Mick-Boy's Avatar
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    Kaiser.shooter - Aside from one upper I briefly owned a few years ago, I don't have any experience with Noveske.

    Dan - I like to apply the "could I trust my life to this?" mindset to every firearm purchase. It keeps me from spending money on crap just because it's inexpensive crap (I'm a sucker for a deal).
    Mick-Boy

    "Men who carry rifles for a living do not seek reward outside the guild. The most cherished gift...is a nod from his peers."


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  10. #10
    Mr Yamaha brutal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser.Shooter View Post
    BCM,LMT or Colt indeed can't go wrong.
    Any thoughts on Noveske? Seems like all ar guys got zombied by Noveske
    My N4 runs like a top and the complete upper has seen use on a registered FA lower. I'd stake my life on it.

    Can't say the same (yet) about my new piston Sig716 due back from Sig today.
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