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Lots of good advice above.
Here's a good deal on a barreled action to build onhttps://www.ar-15.co/threads/158208-...dmoor-For-Sale
Also HIGHLY recommend Brian Whalen's classes. Great instructor, great shooter, super nice, and he is local.
http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...s-review-wy-co
Last edited by stevenc23; 09-28-2016 at 19:55.
Dude, If I hadn't spent pretty much every spare penny I have on that last scope I just bought, I'd have snapped up that barreled action the day you put it up, just for the action and probably would have burned through the rest of the barrel for practice.Originally Posted by stevenc23
Lots of good advice above.
Here's a good deal on a barreled action to build on
Also HIGHLY recommend Brian Whalen's classes. Great instructor, great shooter, super nice, and he is local.
http://www.scout.com/military/sniper...s-review-wy-co
BTW anyone in the market ^^^^ This is a damn fine action and barrel combo, don't let the barrel nut setup dissuade you.
Wow. Lots of great advice. I will be signing up for classes then attending some matches before committing to a platform. Most definitely will be buying (crying) once.
Like Mark said, if PRS is a thought, RPR is the better option due to the production class possibility, unless you wanted to shoot the savage in stock trim.
That said, I'd go with the RPR anyway just because it's a better investment, It's one of the few guns in that class that you won't lose hardly any money on weather you decide it's not for you, or if you decide to sell it and upgrade. They are the hot ticket for the new shooter right now in a sport that's taking off like 3 gun did in the 90's so the resale is both good and typically extremely fast, so if you buy it right, you won't lose much if anything.
As for the other part of the debate, I've seen both rifles absolutely hammer, and I've seen folks fight with accuracy on both. Sometimes you get lucky and the rifle loves a certain factory ammo, but factory ammo being the best load for any given rifle is rare. I've gone through many barrels chambered by the same reamer and made from the same blanks with sequential serial numbers and have yet to find 2 that shoot their best with exactly the same load. It always takes a touch of tweaking.
Last edited by XC700116; 09-30-2016 at 17:36.
Agree with Tim and Shawn. Only thing that proves is that the RPR liked that ammo better. Both rifles are capable of shooting very well. The key is either to hand load or find a factory load that any given barrel likes.
Last edited by stevenc23; 09-30-2016 at 19:01.
Really dude? Your response is to 3 guys who are all shooting premium barrels on custom built rifles who's primary shooting discipline is long range precision rifle. If what you assert were the case do you really think that EVERY single shooter in the top 100 in the PRS would be shooting hand loads? Bench resters, f-class, et all... Give me a break dude.
As for the gas gun tubes, you know full well there's a lot of things happening in a gas gun that aren't happening in a bolt gun that effect the accuracy of the whole package. I don't think you'll get any arguments from myself or most others here that you are one of the more accomplished guys on this board when it comes to that subject, however not everything translates 100% from your primary discipline to this one. It's a different animal, and a good shooting load, isn't good enough In this discipline, and when you're talking about 1 moa targets at ranges of 1000 yards, it has to be THE BEST load for a given rifle/barrel in order to get hits on those targets.
You are not comparing premium barrels in your example either, your comparing mass produced production rifle barrels, Ruger and Savage, nobody said that one is particularly better than the other besides you, and then you go on to assert that somehow a test case with a sample size of 4 or 5 all in a single cartridge, of which a selection of match quality factory ammo is extremely small proves your assertion. None of the barrels on the bolt guns you've mentioned are hand lapped then precision chambered barrels. I've shot out 4 premium barrels (all Kreigers) in the last 8 months alone, does that prove anything? Nope, it doesn't, but I can guarantee that there is no one size fits all BEST load for a given cartridge, otherwise all the aforementioned competitors wouldn't be wasting hours and barrel life doing load development, they'd just be using that time and energy for practice.
Are there certain loads that almost universally shoot well, yeah there are, but they are not going to be the best that that particular barrel can produce in 99.9% of those barrels.
You are asserting an anecdote and nothing more, never confuse anecdotal evidence as data.
Last edited by XC700116; 10-02-2016 at 10:31.
Here are some ramblings from running and shooting precision rifle match's for the last 12 plus years in no particular order
Not once have I heard anybody complain that they were using top quality gear but more than once once have heard complaining about " this was just as good as X " bargain gear .
Spend as much as you can on glass , if you can't see it you can't hit it , and more so remember it is a sighting system and not just a telescope . It's got to track and be repeatable more than anything else .
Factory ammo is acceptable but to get the best performance you have too handload . Factory ammo is OK to 5 or 6 ish but the ES / SD numbers cause too much vertical on target after that . With that said the small semi custom ammo makers and the Hornady 6.5 CM are the exception being closer to true handloads .
Savage and Remington rifles have a track record of being acceptably accurate out of the box , the tupperware stocks on them are shit but the stocks of that construction suck from every manufacturer .
The Ruger RPR's are new and not proven yet . Ruger has been known for hit or miss rifle barrels on there centerfires from day one . There are already reports of accuracy issues with the RPR's out there , you just have to look further than the tiny sample of COAR to find them . The other thing that concerns me with them is they are built on Ruger's price point action and how the action is going to hold up in the long run .
The Rem 700 and clones are still king , the 700 is the most supported by the aftermarket for parts and upgrades with Savage being #2 .
Factory barrels are typically only going to be 3/4 to 1 MOA barrels , wallet groups with 3 shots that happened one time is not how well a barrel shoots . Groups need to be at least 5 rounds and every shot counts none of the called flier BS to throw shots out and it needs to be with multiple groups shot on different days .
100 yards is not a determination of how well a rifle will shoot across the board , you need to shoot and confirm at distance .
Get off the bench and shoot in the dirt and shoot in the wind , only way to get better in the wind is to shoot in it .
If you can afford a custom action do it you wont be sorry .
Practice with your gear before you have to go do it somewhere for real .
Get a chronograph and not one of the cheap Chrony's .
Get a ballistics's program for your data but don't trust it without verification . Record your data and make a set of cards with it on them , batteries die and running numbers on the clock takes too long .
Too say one mass produced factory button rifled barrel is better than another is crazy , every manufacturer runs them as fast as they can with as cheap of materials and processes because they want to turn a profit . Factory chambers are horrible and not conducive to max accuracy and brass life .
Even custom barrel manufacturers turn out a turd once in a while , I've had a bum Kreiger and Kolar has had 2 bad Pac nor's , it happens . Don't get attached to a barrel it is a consumable item just like ammo .
Come out to a local match and watch and talk to people before plunking down money , what works for one guy doesn't always work for another , the learning curve for long range is steep and expensive .
The PRS is not the end all be all of precision shooting , there courses are specialized to the style of shooting they do and not a representation of precision rifle shooting as a whole . Every match around the country is pretty much a representation of what the shooters in that area are interested in doing themselves and the capabilities of the range they shoot at .
308 is dead as a beginner caliber , with the availability of 6.5 CM ammo which is typically cheaper than 308 match ammo and acceptably accurate factory rifles it is a no brainer to go with a creedmore unless you have to run 308 for a specific reason .
BC is king in bullet selection , use the highest BC bullet that is accurate in your rifle / cartridge combo . High BC bullets create ballistic advantage which in turn increases danger space and decreases wind deflection which effectively makes the target larger .
Gucci bullets and powder availability when the election insanity was going on was problematic and the search for substitute components was interesting for some people . All the way through the craziness Powder Valley never raised their prices to the stupid prices that most others did .
Last edited by C Ward; 10-02-2016 at 14:01.
I'm working with a new shooter at the moment, and I'm torn about how to advise him. He's on a very tight budget and already owns an R700 in 308 that seems to shoot a minute or a little less. We've discussed re-barreling in something 6.5, buying the Ruger, or just sticking with the .308 for a season. In the end and primarily due to his lack of budget, I recommend he keep the .308 and work up a load for 155's. He's planning to shoot unknown distance matches like the Safari. My reasoning is thus:
We all recommend that New Guys shoot as much as they can. Since he's on a budget, he obviously saves (or defers) the cost of a barrel, new dies, etc. and can spend that money on components and match fees. In addition, barrel life will be very long compared to the other options saving even more bank.
The 155's seem like a good choice since he's aiming at matches where the shooting positions suck and impacts are hard to spot. The reduced recoil can only help. I forgot, I recommended a brake as well. The extra speed of the 155's will also reduce the criticality of ranging when it's happening on the clock.
He'd figure out how to afford one of the other options if I told him that was the best plan, so it's still on the table. It'll put a serious dent in his ammo budget, though.
What do you guys think? Did I steer him wrong?
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As you know I run the 155s as per you recomendation and I much prefer them. I can see impacts and the extra speed is definetly good. When I did shoot with a break it was a dream to shoot. I say that's good advice for now to practice with and when he is ready to rebarrel he can step up to a different cartridge. For now that will shoot really well. I get about 1/4-1/2 moa with the 155s.
A storm is coming ...
Good ideas. One thing that I always wonder, what if they do the bigger matches and don't like it? They just spent all that money and now have regrets. You gave me the same info. I'm glad you did. While I love the game, I don't have the time to hit all the matches I want. Yet!!
That said, my buget rifle has served me well enough for my skill level. And when time permits, I'll step it up. But not with an RPR.....LOL!!
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